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HFCK - This share is going places
mwanahisa
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:47:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
For a long time, I used to shy off this counter. True story, I once bought it at Kshs 4 - kept it for a year and sold it at Kshs 3.

However, since TransCentury developed an interest in it, I have basically moved in and out and by and large made some good money on it. The bl***y counter had hit almost Kshs 70 at one point. Can you believe that?

Following Equity's and Britak's buy-in into the company, I became convinced that it was foolhardy not being in the counter, on a long term basis. This was (is) in spite of its rather high PE ratio.

Most analysts do not have have much time for it. In Dec 2009, I recall African Alliance deriding it as not being worth the price it was trading at. At that point it was trading at Kshs 15.60 and they had valued it at Kshs 11.73.

We have all seen how far it has come since then. I am convinced that if the Bond Issue is succesful, it will only get better. If interest on the bond @8.5% and the average mortgage at 15.5%, HF could conceivably increase its PBT by upto 200 million within the next 18 months. Overheads are unlikely to increase by much as they already have sufficient (currently under-utilised) capacity.

It is worth noting that its PBV is also the lowest among listed banks, which compensates for its high PE in a sense.

I would therefore wager that EPS could more than double from the current figure by year 2012. What will that do to the price? Tunapaa Juu, Juu..Juu...!!!

Over to you!

DISCLAIMER. I AM CURRENTLY INVESTED IN THE COUNTER, SO I AM NOT 100% OBJECTIVE.
Magnetic Touch
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:09:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/31/2008
Posts: 90
IT'S THE EFFECT OF JM'S MAGIC RUBBING OFF ON IRERI.
Iborian
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 2:27:34 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 194
@mwanahisa, just ask yourself this -

1.What happens if the bond is not succesful?
2.What if the bond is succesful but competitors lower their interest rate on mortgages to say 10% for the sake of argument?

Will the EPS still double as you suggest?
Surealligator
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 3:17:20 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 709
Location: Velayat-e Faryab
Iborian wrote:
@mwanahisa, just ask yourself this -

1.What happens if the bond is not succesful?
2.What if the bond is succesful but competitors lower their interest rate on mortgages to say 10% for the sake of argument?

Will the EPS still double as you suggest?


@Iborian

Are you Nigerian? Ibo?

I would not worry about your first question. The bond will actually be over subscribed. Do I need to go to details?

The second question however bothers me but from a different skew from yours. If KCB got 12.5 billion interest free to pump into the market, why couldn't HF do the same? Why go for bond which you have to pay 8.5% or floating rate each year? I suspect Ireri uses his back pew to reason. See, if S&L decides to harass HF, they can do so by lowering there mortgage rate. HF has very little leeway if the war is brought at its front yard. Now, you argue, EB will be around to ensure that does not happen, why did't EB dish out a soft loan of 10 billion to HF.

On the same footing, Will Kengen keep up with the 25 billion it borrowed at 12.5%? So far, am not aware of any new sources of energy constructed by Kengen apart from the helicopters on Ngong hills. Calculate 12.5% of 25b and you see what I mean.
Go overdrive in purchasing the goods when there's blood on the streets, expecially if the blood is your own
mwanahisa
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 29, 2010 4:26:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
@Iborian.

As SureAlligator says it is extremely unlikely that HF Bond is not fully taken up. There is not too much paper to go around at that level of interest rates.

With regard to your second question? That is again unlikely. Look at history for precedents. Early on in Kibaki's presidency interest rates on govt paper went down to the 2% range. Interest rates on loans however remained high. So while net interest margins may fall, I can't see them falling to a level where HF would not at least break even.

Besides, we have a number of banks who issued bonds at even higher interet rates. Examples - Barclays Bank & CFC Stanbic. Since mortgages are long term commitments, these banks would hardly lower interest rates based on short term considerations.

@SureAlligator. HF did a 1:1 rights issue only 2(?) years back. They could hardly afford to come back to the market for more money from shareholders. They just do not carry the same weight as KCB. I think it would have been a better option - Equity and Britak would have been able to take up their rights + excess and finally taken full control of HF. Maybe this is still in the works.

While S&L could conceivably bully HF, I do think that there's enough to go round, so I do not think it will come to that.
mwanahisa
#6 Posted : Thursday, September 30, 2010 9:19:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
HF closed at an average of 26.75 with a high price of 27.25 yesterday. This is just 50 cents off its high for the last 12 months. More to come.....
Scooby
#7 Posted : Thursday, October 07, 2010 6:00:38 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 121
Mwanahisa,

We want to figure out with you how your understanding of the company and how you concluded that its going places.

My first query is this, what's your understanding of the real estate sector. My interpretation is that it entails the developers constructing a property...people buy it with cash or a mortgage...the buyer could either decide to reside in the property or rent it out.

Am asking this because I need to figure out the business that HF is really in.

Regards
Scubidu
#8 Posted : Thursday, October 07, 2010 7:26:29 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/4/2009
Posts: 700
Location: Nairobi
Quote:
Scubidu,

I knew the bond would be oversubscribed...and a greater portion of investors would prefer the "fixed" bond and not the "floating" bond. I was expecting a greater portion of investors to take up the fixed portion like it was the case with CfC Stanbic.

Maybe they thought that they could earn a higher interest rate than the fixed bond...which I doubt it will happen due to the excess liquidity in the market. This is probably the new "normal" in our fixed income market right.

Out of curiosity, would you like for us to have more discussions about HF in mwanahisa's forum? We could also try to figure out the impact of this bond on the company.

That way we all try to figure out if there is something to worry (or not worry) about the company...regardless of whether one would prefer to invest in that bond or in shares.


@scooby. Yes I agree the fixed was definately more attractive but i have a feeling the floating will have zero liquidity (no upside). I seem to remember HF made better returns from selling housing units than from lending, but that was pre-2000 I think.

@mwanahisa. I'm not a banker but I'd be interested to know what is inherently cheaper for a bank to do. To lend to an unsecured loan, asset loan or mortgage loan? I'm merely looking at admin costs and risks. Becoz I'd think if u had to lend out 7b wouldn't costs go up & like u said there's not much flexibility 4 increasing lending rates.

I seem to remember HF restructured in 2008 to get lean, but u still believe they have underutilised capacity? Barclays & CFC raised a fraction of HF's bond and have bigger reserves. but if HF cud theoretically lend out the 7b I wud think that would cos serious liquidity problems considering they hold no govt assets. But surealligator had a point. Ebl lent HF 1b in debt at 8.5% (milking them) whereas other banks like BBK got funds from their parents at like 2.4%. But indeed ur rite the valuations on equity & the bond look good.

@surealligator. What makes u think KenGen didn't buy an IFRB with the 25b?
“We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
youcan'tstopusnow
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 07, 2010 7:54:43 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Equity seriously needs to get a hold of this company if they are to effectively compete with KCB. The dividends they are getting are nothing compared to what KCB gains from S&L. Plus I think Equity will revolutionise the housing sector (as they did banking) when they gain control of HF
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
guru267
#10 Posted : Thursday, October 07, 2010 7:57:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
Equity seriously needs to get a hold of this company if they are to effectively compete with KCB. The dividends they are getting are nothing compared to what KCB gains from S&L. Plus I think Equity will revolutionise the housing sector (as they did banking) when they gain control of HF


@youcan't i would also buy equity if this were to happen... but its pretty clear to me HFCK is not interested at all in selling.... AT ALL
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
youcan'tstopusnow
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 07, 2010 8:11:48 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
guru, I think its only a matter of time. Didn't the chairman of the board get replaced? Just after HF refused a merger. Equity and Britak control like 36 %. Thats a lot. Though evidently short of a controlling stake. They should just mount a hostile takeover
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
VituVingiSana
#12 Posted : Thursday, October 07, 2010 8:50:43 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,218
Location: Nairobi
I wonder what % of HF's Bond (7.1bn was taken up by EB & Britak}?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
youcan'tstopusnow
#13 Posted : Thursday, October 07, 2010 9:00:27 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
VituVingiSana wrote:
I wonder what % of HF's Bond (7.1bn was taken up by EB & Britak}?

Good question
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
mlennyma
#14 Posted : Friday, October 08, 2010 9:50:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,191
Location: nairobi
This share has been tied to the equity share,when equity sneezes hfck gets a cold,i wonder if we will ever see each share rallying its own direction and sticking to its own fundamentals.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
mwanahisa
#15 Posted : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 4:22:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2008
Posts: 1,438
The Average price today is at 27.75 with a new 12 month high of 29. This share sure is going places. I think the success of the bond was the catalyst.

Over to y'all.
Renegade
#16 Posted : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 7:34:26 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/18/2009
Posts: 118
While guys were debating, it looks like those who took the plunge will be raking in the dough.
stocksguru7
#17 Posted : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:45:36 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 38
Mawnahisa My friend

all you say is correct all on paper but you know well things here are good on paper but on implementation manaeno ingine and finally result ata ni ingine

undisclosed disclosure

yes we do hold hfck shares and we recommend it as a buy
UN PACTUM UN DICTUM
VituVingiSana
#18 Posted : Wednesday, October 13, 2010 9:32:36 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,218
Location: Nairobi
I sold my HFCK... put the cash into KK at 10/-
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Iborian
#19 Posted : Friday, October 15, 2010 12:43:28 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/17/2009
Posts: 194
VituVingiSana wrote:
I sold my HFCK... put the cash into KK at 10/-


Who's laughing now? I love this share! Meanwhile JS is languishing at 9.95.
sheep
#20 Posted : Friday, October 15, 2010 12:58:52 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/24/2008
Posts: 781
waiting to see whether it can hold @30...I jump in....the season of speculation has began.
The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
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