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Law Society Conditions of sale - What they say?
Rank: Member Joined: 1/28/2009 Posts: 353 Location: Cloud
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Wazuans, um involved in a plot transaction but need any insight regarding a small hitch with my lawyer. Now we had agreed everything and put down all the issues with the seller. The trouble is on engaging an advocate for an agreement draft, 15k later the lawyer insists, the balance must be paid through him as it is a legal requirement and further our agreement is subject to " Law Society Conditions of sale (1989 Edition) " Am not sure what the implication of this is. Already got the search, L.B Consent and had paid a deposit for the same. Due diligence complete but seller wont accept bal. thro "proxy" and also wont engage own lawyer . Wazua, pot of eternal knowledge, kindly shine thine perpetual light. "For i am the master and the captain of my fate"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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@Kwanini,
Pole.I have no answer but why not prepare a sale agreement by yourself and get the seller and his witness to sign and yourself and your witness to sign and then pay the seller then withdraw the services of the lawyer?Does a sale aggreement have to be drafted by a lawyer i.e is an agreement that is not drafted by a lawyer not binding?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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@kwanini better get that agreement done properly coz if there any hitch with the transaction, its the only document that will separate you and your money or land. Legally also the agreement and transfer documents can only be drawn by a lawyer with a valid practicing certificate. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/8/2008 Posts: 947
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I would suspect the seller than the lawyer.
Does it matter where he get his balance from! I think you should both go to the lawyer and make your payment there as a compromise using a bankers cheque or something!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/28/2009 Posts: 353 Location: Cloud
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Thanks guys, what i really wish to find out is 1. Must an agreement be done by a lawyer to be binding? Can a layman complete the other issues- i.e stamp duty? final registration on transfer? This is why i thought a lawyer is vital. 2. subject to " Law Society Conditions of sale (1989 Edition) what do these conditions say? where can i get a copy? Lawyer says these are general conditions, taught in Law school !!! Sadly i come from the school of serious hard knocks. 3. Is one meant to have an agreement with the lawyer as well? He says the we shall discuss his other fee on stamp duty+registration once i have paid the sellers balance. 4. Shouldt law firms have bank accounts in their trading names or individual parners? @ton, sparkly and chaka- unfortunately, i trust the seller more coz we had agreed even if the deal fails if i failed to secure the funds, the deposit would be converted to rent. i have been running a small outfit on the plot. "For i am the master and the captain of my fate"
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 1,279 Location: nbi
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BS-I've done several deals where I've infact given the cash to a rela of the seller i.e. not even the seller himself. All it requires is that you either furnish the lawyer a copy of the cheque or get the seller to confirm by writing ccing you that he has received mbeca. The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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@Kwanini,
Sorry to hijack your post..can someone enlighten me on the implications of not paying stamp duty at the time of purchasing land i.e the likely penalties to be paid?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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@Kwanini, had to consult... 1. Agreements are binding once signed between two parties; 1 witness each also advisable. A layman can complete the issues; where a lawyer is a must, payment of lawyer/commissioner of oaths to stamp is standard practice. 2. Law Society conditions of sale are a general body of terms meant to protect buyer/seller. Standard agreements include a clause stating agreement is subject to the LSK conditions in so far as the agreement overides where clauses may conflict. 3. It is advisable to use a lawyer with integrity. It is not, I repeat it is NOT now standard for lawyer to receive full sale monies. That only happens in the case of bank financing/mortgage, and even then the bank only gives lawyer a letter of undertaking and not the money. The lawyer only needs to state their full legal fees in advance and ensure exchange of documents/cheque is perhaps done in their presence. 4. Law firms generally have accounts in the name of the practice not their individual names. 5. As with all things land, verification of property is key. Refer: Sample agreement 01: http://www.thikagreens.c...GREEMENT_PHASE_2_1_.pdf
Sample agreement 02: http://breakingnewskenya...saleagreement030708.pdf
Sample article: http://www.kachwanya.com...ess-of-buying-property/
Critique of LSK conditions of sale: http://www.scribd.com/do...iety-Conditions-of-Sale
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/7/2010 Posts: 1,279 Location: nbi
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I can give you name of a decent lawyer who'll do this for you very quickly. For a fee offcourse. Even lawyers have to eat. The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 359
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Kwanini wrote:Wazuans, um involved in a plot transaction but need any insight regarding a small hitch with my lawyer. Now we had agreed everything and put down all the issues with the seller. The trouble is on engaging an advocate for an agreement draft, 15k later the lawyer insists, the balance must be paid through him as it is a legal requirement and further our agreement is subject to " Law Society Conditions of sale (1989 Edition) "
Am not sure what the implication of this is. Already got the search, L.B Consent and had paid a deposit for the same. Due diligence complete but seller wont accept bal. thro "proxy" and also wont engage own lawyer . Wazua, pot of eternal knowledge, kindly shine thine perpetual light.
Once you instructed the lawyer and paid his fee, he is by law obligated to see the conveyance to its conclusive end himself. So, the lawyer is merely exercising his legal duty. If you must pay otherwise, then you must debrief him and instruct him afresh and in writing, in which case he might advise against your move and withdraw from your transaction..because he will not be party to the transfer of the "considerations"...money and the title. If it goes wrong, you will be on your own.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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@slykat, interesting points.
If it goes wrong with the lawyer, what then?
If the lawyer doesn't sit on the money, does it render him incapable of seeing the conveyancing to its conclusive end?
And why does this lawyer frown upon a proxy like an escrow or bank undertaking? Is it because he's dealing with an individual?
Too many questions with one lawyer, yet there are many good lawyers in practice.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 359
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muganda wrote:@slykat, interesting points.
If it goes wrong with the lawyer, what then? If its by the lawyer's incompetence, negligence or fraud, then you have recourse to the LSK Disciplinary committee and an action in court or police if it be criminal. If the fault lies elsewhere, your lawyer should rectify or if unable advise on course of action. muganda wrote:If the lawyer doesn't sit on the money, does it render him incapable of seeing the conveyancing to its conclusive end? Not ipso facto. muganda wrote:And why does this lawyer frown upon a proxy like an escrow or bank undertaking? Is it because he's dealing with an individual? My understanding is that it is the seller frowning not the lawyer. muganda wrote:Too many questions with one lawyer, yet there are many good lawyers in practice. That lawyer is not a bad one on the basis of the info we have only; chances are, he just wants to exercise full professional responsibility... not taking full legal responsibility and liability for work not done by him. NB: We do not know the nature of the instructions given to the lawyer in full... so only, Kwanini may be following what am saying as he does.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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Kwanini wrote:Wazuans, um involved in a plot transaction but need any insight regarding a small hitch with my lawyer. Now we had agreed everything and put down all the issues with the seller. The trouble is on engaging an advocate for an agreement draft, 15k later the lawyer insists, the balance must be paid through him as it is a legal requirement and further our agreement is subject to " Law Society Conditions of sale (1989 Edition) "
Am not sure what the implication of this is. Already got the search, L.B Consent and had paid a deposit for the same. Due diligence complete but seller wont accept bal. thro "proxy" and also wont engage own lawyer . Wazua, pot of eternal knowledge, kindly shine thine perpetual light.
RUBBISH!!! What is important is that the cash exchange is done IN THE PRESENCE of the lawyer. Watch out. It is much more difficult to get your cash from a lawyer than the title from the seller Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/28/2009 Posts: 353 Location: Cloud
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Update.We went to the advocate's office with the old lady who asked the lawyer this " will i require another advocate to follow my money with you after the transfer is done? The lawyer shot back " What if the registration/ transfer fails, how long will it take to get my clients money back ? Me, am totally confused. They were talking in mother tongue and i was pretending i donot understand Kisapere. The discussion was ugly... didn't even know the lady had been pursuing some insurance payments from another advocate for the past 2 years...We had to walk ou.. @mukiha- i am still stuck with my Bankers' Cheque. Surely something has to give. @Waithaka- if it is not a one man outfit, hit back. "For i am the master and the captain of my fate"
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/8/2008 Posts: 1,575
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My experience (freehold title): 1. identify the land 2. do back ground check... at the land s office e.g no caveats 3. agree price and terms eg payment by bankers cheque made in the name of registered owner (problem here now because maximum value of cheque is KES999,999). Pay a percentage (10%) as commitment fee 4. Book land transfer authority with Land Control Board (LCB) 5. Visit advocate(seller and buyer and IFF stage 4 is satisfactory) and furnish them with terms agreed who then writes a sale agreement 6. Meet at the advocate's and pay balance as you get all papers necessary for transfer of the title to yourself. All else needed is for the seller to appear at the LCB meeting and then wait for your title deed Caveat: There are, of course variables to this line because i am aware of several that have worked I care!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/10/2010 Posts: 1,001 Location: River Road
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Chaka wrote:@Kwanini,
Sorry to hijack your post..can someone enlighten me on the implications of not paying stamp duty at the time of purchasing land i.e the likely penalties to be paid? @Chaka, the penalties are crushing-penalty of 5/- for every 20/- of the duty payable for every period of 3 months. When calculated sometimes it equals the value of the property. Uhuru in the budget proposed to lower the penalty to 1/- for every 20/- and not to exceed 100% of principal duty outstanding. @Kwanini, you don't seem to have a rapport with your lawyer. Unless he has seen something that you haven't. If you are in a hurry then sign for him a discharge that you wont sue him if things go wrong.
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/28/2009 Posts: 353 Location: Cloud
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@emptyhand @thuks @ Mukiha- The rapport disappeared the moment he insisted the balance was to be paid through his account. Our layman agreement with the seller was pay via EFT/Bankers Cheque. That's where disagreement arose with lawyer. Got another amazing learned chap. We have just come from the Registrar office's- [Amazing these chaps report to work at 6.00 am] After a cup of early morning tea- the docs were verified and everybody is happy. Rider: Mkonomtupu haulambwi- no pun intended! "For i am the master and the captain of my fate"
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/28/2009 Posts: 353 Location: Cloud
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@wazua- i may not be very well endowned, but as a sign of appreciation, can i mpesa a little something for you to donate towards your annual Mbuzi and or Sk Charity? "For i am the master and the captain of my fate"
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Rank: Administration Joined: 11/19/2009 Posts: 679
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Dear Members,
It is said that the best Attitude is Gratitude. @Kwanini, your one line post is touching and reflects the true spirit of Wazua. Special appreciation to all members who made a contribution to assist @Kwanini in this thread.
Please send your MPESA to 0715-222250. We will immediately forward the same to Wazua Charity Club, plus try to match your contribution.
Lastly, we would be honored if you will accept a Wazua token from us to acknowledge your membership to our community (details by email).
Welcome to Wazua.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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mukiha wrote:RUBBISH!!!
It is much more difficult to get your cash from a lawyer than the title from the seller  Try as I might, I can only wish I could be this direct. @Kwanini, glad it ended well. @Wazuzu, good stuff. I feel a tiny winy bit unappreciated - my disertation tooo long perhaps... Pls spread a token for my verbosity... 
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