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Why i will peacefully vote NO!
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nesta
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:00:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi
Reading posts and hearing statements from "leaders" on TV, i don't see a lot of the yes men giving reasons why i should vote yes for this draft. In fact, they are simply giving reasons why they think that i will vote no: that 1.) I am a land grabber 2.) I am a hypocrite 3.) That i am intolerant and i don't want Muslims to get married. Well, here are my reasons:


1.) The application of international law without approval by parliament. How can we say that Kenya is a sovereign country (4) (1) and come and surrender our sovereignty (145) (1) (b). Who will form this laws; US, Russia, China, Iran, Which country.

2.) That i will not be allowed to beat my own child even if he does wrong. And it will be impossible to rectify this law except through a referendum (29) (e)

3.) Abortion will be permitted through any other written law; not even an act of parliament. Written laws can even be in the form of county laws and executive laws (delegated legislation) Compare article (26) (4) and (91) (2) (e)

4.) The constitution will give women undue advantage. Why should they be favoured? Is the wife of one of the mps more "marginalized" than the 40 year old man in turkana who has just survived gunshot wounds? affirmative action is good so long as it has a time-line. How will having 40 women in the senate help the 10 pupils in nyanza who got pregnant the other day?

5.) The draft allows the media to air pornographic content without regard to public morality . Compare the current constitution article (80) vs the draft (34) (2) (a)

6.) The draft, in the wisdom of the committee of experts, places the roles of controlling drugs under the authority of the county governments Fourth schedule, part 2-13. Where will the counties get the resources to fight drugs trade? pLEASE? What was the Committee Of (leftist) Interests when this was being written?

And many others. I have 17 reasons which i oppose fully in this draft.
On Christ Alone
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aemathenge
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:05:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
You forget to add my favourite part. What are you going to do if The Greens win?
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Mpenzi
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:19:53 PM
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Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
The provisions in the draft constitution declaring international law part of Kenyan law without qualification are just weird: Articles 2(5) and 2(6)

"(5) The general rules of international law shall form part of the law of Kenya.
(6) Any treaty or convention ratified by Kenya shall form part of the law of Kenya under this Constitution."

No other country in the world has such wide and unlimited provisions as regards the application of international law at the domestic level.

And it is silly, unthoughtful and careless to simply import all general rules of international law while we well know that international law in "made" by the big boys/girls and has always been used to colonise, subjugate and perpetuate neo-colonialism in the "third world".

Further, even for international law gurus there is never agreement as to exactly what is a "general rule of international law".

These provisions in the draft constitution show that the COE is just full of quacks!
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willin2learn
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:29:31 PM
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Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 1,178
@Mpenzi

COE is just a bunch of 'copypasting experts'. All they could come up was a Hybrid system from the millions they gobbled.
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masukuma
#5 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:29:43 PM
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Joined: 10/4/2006
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Location: Nairobi
@mahe-goat, we will live with the masses.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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sky5
#6 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:42:06 PM
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Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
This the reason why the draft constitution has many 'foreign' elements. Giving a blanket endorsement to international law is unacceptable to a sovereign state.

@aemathenge; If 'Green' wins, there isn't much to be done by the 'red' team except to follow the law regarding amendments. However, we may later regret the consequencies of passing this draft as it is. Why the hurry?
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kingfisher
#7 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:43:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824
kingfisher wrote:
Am looking for where this katiba thing says one can not contest for two offices at the same time and I cant find, eg Mpig and president offices....any one who knows pliz tell me

When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
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Obi 1 Kanobi
#8 Posted : Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:18:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@ Nesta, see my comments on your fears on the new constitution in red.

nesta wrote:
Reading posts and hearing statements from "leaders" on TV, i don't see a lot of the yes men giving reasons why i should vote yes for this draft. In fact, they are simply giving reasons why they think that i will vote no: that 1.) I am a land grabber 2.) I am a hypocrite 3.) That i am intolerant and i don't want Muslims to get married. Well, here are my reasons:


1.) The application of international law without approval by parliament. How can we say that Kenya is a sovereign country (4) (1) and come and surrender our sovereignty (145) (1) (b). Who will form this laws; US, Russia, China, Iran, Which country.

I don't understand the problem here, I presume the government of the day will review such laws and sign them on behalf of Kenyans, what safety check do we lose by parliament not signing.

2.) That i will not be allowed to beat my own child even if he does wrong. And it will be impossible to rectify this law except through a referendum (29) (e)

Does the constitution actually say this!! or is it your interpretation

3.) Abortion will be permitted through any other written law; not even an act of parliament. Written laws can even be in the form of county laws and executive laws (delegated legislation) Compare article (26) (4) and (91) (2) (e)

I think we have beaten this point to death, go ahead and vote no if you are not convinced
4.) The constitution will give women undue advantage. Why should they be favoured? Is the wife of one of the mps more "marginalized" than the 40 year old man in turkana who has just survived gunshot wounds? affirmative action is good so long as it has a time-line. How will having 40 women in the senate help the 10 pupils in nyanza who got pregnant the other day?

I think the affirmative action will swing the men's way once 2/3 of parliament swings the women's way, I think thats the time limit you are looking for.

5.) The draft allows the media to air pornographic content without regard to public morality . Compare the current constitution article (80) vs the draft (34) (2) (a)

Is this written or is it your interpretation, besides there are many christian media stations, and you do realise you have the right to choose which media station to tune to.

6.) The draft, in the wisdom of the committee of experts, places the roles of controlling drugs under the authority of the county governments Fourth schedule, part 2-13. Where will the counties get the resources to fight drugs trade? pLEASE? What was the Committee Of (leftist) Interests when this was being written?

Does the constitution forbid law enforcement agencies at the national level from dealing with such crimes!!

And many others. I have 17 reasons which i oppose fully in this draft.

"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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chepkel
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:37:36 AM
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Joined: 4/6/2010
Posts: 741
Location: Nairobi
nesta wrote:
Reading posts and hearing statements from "leaders" on TV, i don't see a lot of the yes men giving reasons why i should vote yes for this draft. In fact, they are simply giving reasons why they think that i will vote no: that 1.) I am a land grabber 2.) I am a hypocrite 3.) That i am intolerant and i don't want Muslims to get married. Well, here are my reasons:


1.) The application of international law without approval by parliament. How can we say that Kenya is a sovereign country (4) (1) and come and surrender our sovereignty (145) (1) (b). Who will form this laws; US, Russia, China, Iran, Which country.

I also do not like this. Governments sometimes may not act in the best interest of the people especially if they are given a little incentive e.g Kimunya and selling of the Grand Regency am sure if it was passed through Parliament we would have a different scenario.

2.) That i will not be allowed to beat my own child even if he does wrong. And it will be impossible to rectify this law except through a referendum (29) (e)

Such kind of discipline has been used in Africa and Kenya for the longest time. However, Beating a child is never the best solution. These days many parents abuse their children in the name of discipline and this law will protect these kids. I totally agree with this law 100% Its better to rule it out completely rather than create exceptions

3.) Abortion will be permitted through any other written law; not even an act of parliament. Written laws can even be in the form of county laws and executive laws (delegated legislation) Compare article (26) (4) and (91) (2) (e)

No Comment

4.) The constitution will give women undue advantage. Why should they be favoured? Is the wife of one of the mps more "marginalized" than the 40 year old man in turkana who has just survived gunshot wounds? affirmative action is good so long as it has a time-line. How will having 40 women in the senate help the 10 pupils in nyanza who got pregnant the other day?

40 women in the senate will and can really help the 10 pupils in Nyanza who got pregnant the other day. Because they would know that these girls need to go back to school, need help in taking care of the baby, need access to an antenatal and post natal clinic, need support so that they cannot have an abortion, need to get support from the responsible boy/man, if it was an adult and a minor then the man should be thrown in Jail for statutory rape!! etc etc Now which man will ever think of that. If these girls are in a school with a headmaster, most likely they have already been expelled. I totally agree with this law. Women leadership always adds great value because there are some things that Men will never think of. For example, on the really lowest level, things like removing duty on sanitary towels, diapers etc etc. Now which man could ever think of that. Women leadership always focuses on the children, youth and other women. Women will feel the pain of the marginalized man in Turkana more than a man can. Leadership has been in Men's hands since independence and we are still fighting the same problems its time to involve more women and you will see real issues affecting the mwanainchi being tackled.

5.) The draft allows the media to air pornographic content without regard to public morality . Compare the current constitution article (80) vs the draft (34) (2) (a)

There is a body that regulates the media and a way that one can complain. Media should be free and not be interfered with but they must be regulated. And yes, you can change the station and ban your kids from ever watching. Iko katiba ya nyumbani.

6.) The draft, in the wisdom of the committee of experts, places the roles of controlling drugs under the authority of the county governments Fourth schedule, part 2-13. Where will the counties get the resources to fight drugs trade? pLEASE? What was the Committee Of (leftist) Interests when this was being written?

This will mean that the communities at the grassrooot level will also be directly involved with the prevention and the fight against drug abuse and this is very good. There is a greater impact when the people take charge of the issues that affect them. And yes, nothing bars the National Government from coming in to assist. I like this one

And many others. I have 17 reasons which i oppose fully in this draft.
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