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KCB results not so impressive:
wote
#1 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:40:53 AM
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Joined: 10/18/2007
Posts: 217
K.C.B have posted not so impressive results for the year ended 2009, i hope they do not come up with the crap of another rights issue to support the so called expanssion of branches which have not brought in good results.
kizee
#2 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:58:26 AM
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Posts: 537
were u expecting a better result? its been 5pct growth q on q growth for 3 qtrs in a row
Wa_ithaka
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:06:39 AM
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Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
PAT was actually down from 2008.Okay just 3%, I reckon because it had to show all the dirty stuff in the cupbboard that gets missed during the quarter announcements. KCB has now been overtaken by the awesome Equity in terms of size of profitability as I thought last yr. Mark you, Equity has a balance that 2/3 the size of KCB. And guys still buy KCB over Equity?

KCB is wanting to raise Ksh15bn! Presumambly a mixture of rights issue and a bond.
VVS, please note NIC only has 3% higher capital than KCB).
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
kizee
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:17:12 AM
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Posts: 537
equity has overtaken kcb in size of profitability? wat does that mean?
Wa_ithaka
#5 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:54:08 AM
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Kizee- let me use an example. Last year, your pal Magothe had 4 cars and you had 5 cars. This year, Magothe has 5 cars, but you have 4 cars. Would it be correct to say that Magothe has overtaken in you in the size of car entourage owned?

Equity clocked Ksh4.2bn PAT and KCB Ksh4.0bn for 2009. Capisce?
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
VituVingiSana
#6 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:04:56 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
Wa_ithaka wrote:

VVS, please note NIC only has 3% higher capital than KCB).

KCB Shareholders equity = 22.8bn
NIC Shareholders equity = 6.8bn (incl minority)

So unavuta nini ;-)?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#7 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:06:41 PM
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Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
wote wrote:
K.C.B have posted not so impressive results for the year ended 2009, i hope they do not come up with the crap of another rights issue to support the so called expanssion of branches which have not brought in good results.

Seems a mixture of debt & equity to raise 15bn so, yes, another Rights Issue seems likely!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#8 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:10:06 PM
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Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
Barclays is almost 2x as efficient as KCB. With a smaller balance sheet than KCB, Barclays has 2x the profit...

BTW, Equity has a very impressive ROCE as well... Equity PAT higher than KCB yet much smaller Balance Sheet 100 vs 195...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Scubidu
#9 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:19:56 PM
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Joined: 9/4/2009
Posts: 700
Location: Nairobi
I think profitability is relative...taking pre-tax profit are things change...but what do investors pay attention too...cash dividends...so u buy 1,000 shares of both KCB or Equity, which comes out above?
“We are the middle children of history man, no purpose or place. We have no great war, no great depression. Our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives!" – Tyler Durden
mkonomtupu
#10 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:26:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/10/2010
Posts: 1,001
Location: River Road
KCB might follow BBK's trend and issue long-term bonds and start cutting the interest rates. If that happens then hold but not another rights issue to support expansion of branches.

KCB's liquidity ratio at 28% BBK's is at 42%. Staff costs are down.
Wa_ithaka
#11 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:31:49 PM
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Location: nbi
Vvs- a little knowledge is a...
When you are looking at a bank's capital adequcy, you look at its capital ratio. The best one to use is total capital/total risk weighted assets
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
VituVingiSana
#12 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:32:44 PM
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Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
@scubidu - Hence the use of ratios... Who cares about 'absolute' profits when the real issue as investors is RETURN on what we INVEST...

So we need to compare PE Ratio, P/B, ROI, etc...
Of course, we need to look at management, future, expansion but then we get subjective... but important!

IMHO, Equity & KCB will do well wit regional expansion. For Barclays Kenya... the only way Kenyan shareholders benefit is if BBK 'merges' its Uganda + Tanzania units into Kenya...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
kizee
#13 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:47:49 PM
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Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
dudes

eqtys PBT was 5bn i thot?
kizee
#14 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:50:07 PM
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Joined: 1/9/2008
Posts: 537
Wa_ithaka wrote:
Kizee- let me use an example. Last year, your pal Magothe had 4 cars and you had 5 cars. This year, Magothe has 5 cars, but you have 4 cars. Would it be correct to say that Magothe has overtaken in you in the size of car entourage owned?

Equity clocked Ksh4.2bn PAT and KCB Ksh4.0bn for 2009. Capisce?

...

so usin ur example...i thot eqtys PBT was 5 bn yet KCB's was 6bn...??
Wa_ithaka
#15 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:09:36 PM
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Joined: 1/7/2010
Posts: 1,279
Location: nbi
Kizee-as a shareholder, my interest is profit directly attributable to shareholders. Ceteris paribus, the higher this is, the higher the potential dividend and the greater the likelihood that the firm will be able to invest in future thus generating higher profits...
The Governor of Nyeri - 2017
Intelligentsia
#16 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:20:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
KCB:
Growing loan book (28%), income by KES 4b - good
Strong tangible networth - 22.8b - good
higher operational overheads - reasonable, likely due to cost of
new branches
growing bad book by KES 4b- bad bad news, NPA: LOAN BOOK ratio high

They should begin harvesting the benefits of last years' expansion (higher market shares, more & low cost funds, larger loan book)this yr.

IMHO, their pace of expansion in 2010 should have been slower as they review what benefits (OFBS & ONBS)have accrued from last year's expansion. Such critical feedback to then inform & be incorporated into their 2010's expansion.

Am really cuious what proportions of debt and equity they will use for the kes 15n expansion
guru267
#17 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:23:20 PM
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Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
lest all the doubting thomases be warned... this company has HUGE growth waiting for it
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#18 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:39:19 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
Intelligentsia: Well, KCB shud see some gains from writebacks in 2010 from Uchumi, Triton (2.2bn provision in 2009) & PanPaper if kibaki/uhuru go thru with stupid revival scheme using taxpayer funds!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
sheep
#19 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:50:59 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/24/2008
Posts: 781
The good thing about inefficient co.s like KCB is that when the economy starts to pick up they will produce great results and outperform the very efficient banks like Stanchart...the problem is timing.
The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
Intelligentsia
#20 Posted : Thursday, February 25, 2010 2:19:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
VituVingiSana wrote:
Intelligentsia: Well, KCB shud see some gains from writebacks in 2010 from Uchumi, Triton (2.2bn provision in 2009) & PanPaper if kibaki/uhuru go thru with stupid revival scheme using taxpayer funds!


Triton/ Uchumi/PanPaper - each of these are mega-million bucks deals gone sour (well, so far).What lessons should KCB draw from such fiascos? d'oh!
That:
1)the best loan covenants/risk-control mechanisms can still fail ala Triton and disappearing fuel stocks,
2) today's well-capitalised corporate giant could be tomorrow's limping and under-capitalised co.,ala Uchumi, Pan Paper due to management adopting poor strategies,
3) even though KCB's capital strength allows them to take up such mega-deals single-handedly, they should in future consider financing such huge deals with a consortium of other commercial banks. Maybe a syndicated arrangement with them as lead bank.That way the default risk underlying the ledning is also shared around.

Good news for Kenyan corporates in financial difficulties is that bankrupty laws are due to be reviewed so that a company being placed under receivership is not in effect being sent to its death-bed. Like Chapter 11 in the U.S.
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