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PIN certificates & banks
VituVingiSana
#1 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 9:40:48 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
CFC Stanbic wants a certified copy of my PIN certificate for my almost (10yrs+) dormant account.

1) Do all banks require PIN certs?

2) How does Equity Bank open so many accounts coz I find it hard to believe all those rural Kenyans have PIN certs (unless KRA has reached all corners)

3) How do students open accounts since PIN certs are only available to 18yrs+ (or am I mistaken)?

4) Has your bank asked for a PIN cert? If yes or no, please indicate Y or N & which bank.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Kamaa
#2 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 10:05:31 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 1,177
Location: Nairobi - Kenya
@ vvs

i thought PIN certificate is asked by banks when borrowing?
When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend
mukiha
#3 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 10:28:39 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@VVS: Since you say the account is dormant, why not just close it and forget about the matter?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#4 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 10:29:29 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
....better still, ask them for a court warrant!!!

BTW; "certified" by whom?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
VituVingiSana
#5 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:02:44 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
@VVS: Since you say the account is dormant, why not just close it and forget about the matter?


Almost dormant. I still use it when I get a chq from CFCFS. Or some jamaa who has a CFCStanbic account.

But... yes, that is where I am headed. I look at it as my emergency fund as well. Just in case I have no other cash...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#6 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:04:31 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
....better still, ask them for a court warrant!!!

BTW; "certified" by whom?


Certified by an attorney. Seriously, 99.9999% of those attorneys/lawyers sitting in those small offices don't know me from the guy next door YET his 'certification' counts for more than sending them an 'uncertified' scanned copy?

Suppose I even got it certified. So what value does that have? IMHO, most lawyers will help sell your soul to the devil as long as they get a cut...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#7 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:05:35 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
Kamaa wrote:
@ vvs

i thought PIN certificate is asked by banks when borrowing?


I can understand a PIN cert when borrowing funds coz am I legit? Do I owe KRA money?

Lakini this is 100% a deposit account.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
KulaRaha
#8 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:13:01 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
I have a similar issue with Stanbic. My old mama has had an account with CFC for years and years, now they want her to get a pin. She is 75 years old, has no income. Further, she is not Kenyan, but a dependant here. Where will I get a PIN for her?
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
Njung'e
#9 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:25:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Aiiii.!!.....Hii ni mpya!!...Or they want to give you driving licenses??..lol...As Mukiha says,hama.Why stress yourself?
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
chaliwong
#10 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:39:15 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 1/10/2010
Posts: 73
Location: kenya
Could it be a Business Current account that you want to re-activate?
KulaRaha
#11 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:39:21 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
Probably some directive from some Boer sitting in some office in Joburg...
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
Capri
#12 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 11:41:33 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/13/2008
Posts: 51
Had tried opening an account with CFC before the merger and the Original PIN cert was one of their requirements. Told them I did not have it and they said only option was to go to KRA and get another one. Since could not see the rationale behind all that hassle just went to a different bank.
Intelligentsia
#13 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 12:18:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
Guys, this is actually a Central Bank requirement and ALL banks are supposed to be asking for it per CBK directives. So its not a CFC, Barclays, DTB or NIC peculiarity. Even if you bank isn't asking this sooner or later it will, as borne out by diff. wazuzu's experience above.It will catch up with Equity, too, if that's what they are doing.

It began as a CBK-KRA collabo to kamata tax cheats and who better to do that with KRA than CBK which regulates banks where the actual monies are held. And it made lots of sense for KRA to seek CBK's co-operation (since both work for the same govt). In time this extended to opening of a/cs as well.

Contrary to what many of u think, getting a PIN cert in areas from Nbi is a walk in the park. In Thika, for instance, you can have it in under 2 hrs.

On certification, so long as the original PIN cert has the KRA stamp and has some official's signature this should suffice.
VituVingiSana
#14 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 12:42:35 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
chaliwong wrote:
Could it be a Business Current account that you want to re-activate?


Not a business account.

Personal Savings Account. No loans. No credit cards. Just some (not even a large amount. Just above minimum balance) rainy day cash.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#15 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 12:44:50 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
@intelligentsia:

The CFC Stanbic letter says CBK guidelines not requirement...

Anyway as @mukiha said, I will make the trip... lakini in all honesty... I wud rather just close the account.

I am thinking Equity simply for emergency coz wako everywhere!!!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
gk
#16 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 2:29:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 488
....methinks the idea behind PIN requiremnt is more of a KYC thing meant to curtail money laundering etc.

...but its not a must have to open an account i.e if you arent employed and/or income low.

wote
#17 Posted : Friday, January 22, 2010 2:40:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/18/2007
Posts: 217
Intellingentsia, CBK of Kenya has no regulation requiring account holders in our Banks to have a Pin Certificate.All they require is an ID?/passsport,letter of introduction from an account holder with such a bank/ your employer and two photos.
If its a business a/c then one requires MM and AA, certificate of incorporation, i/D of directors and two photos.
CFC will never be a government agent and should not be seen behaving as one.Its not their mandate to vet who pays taxes and who does not pay.Remember in SA financial systems are still Government controlled while the Kenyan one have been liberazed, rules that are in operation in SA should not be imposed in Kenya.
VVS just close the a/c and move on to some reasonable bank.
Remember this guys are asking people to submit documents for their investment bank, such documents include statements from your bank and employer to show source of income;surely since when did that become the business of a stockbrooker? soon their halls willbe empty.
Intelligentsia
#18 Posted : Sunday, January 24, 2010 8:23:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
@wote and vvs - just to clarify,it is not a stipulated requirement for CASA accounts (Current Accounts, Savings Accounts) but it is for borrowing customers. I have personally seen a CBK memo on this to one bank that had been excluding same and they were warned cash penalty would be imposed on the next set of quarterly returns if this info was again omitted. Also just look at the format of the top 50 borrowings (PR-5) and you will see the PIN column is a mandatory field.

VituVingiSana
#19 Posted : Monday, January 25, 2010 7:32:13 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,118
Location: Nairobi
@Intelligentsia - As mentioned... mine is a Savings Account.

I have decided to close it. I will move to Equity or KCB since this is an account for use as a 'rainy day'... Stuck somewhere...

Chances are Equity or KCB will have a branch not CFC Stanbic.

Is there a 24hr Equity Branch in the Westlands area?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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