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A moral dilemna
Rank: Member Joined: 5/2/2007 Posts: 536
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After watching the exposé on KTN on KRA.. is it really possible to do an import commodity based business without resorting to paying bribes to get your goods cleared legally and without KRA over charging you for duty.
It would be interesting to hear from veterans in this field.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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@tuvok, business is war. To succeed without paying bribes takes principle. Man, I tell you one of the dreaded things in business is when KRA guys land in your premises. What makes it worse is that nobody's perfect, they can always find a rounding error or worse.
From what I've had from tax guys, KRA actually look for money from those who are making an attempt to comply. It's the same thing in life where real mean crooks often get away, and you get the innocent guy on his first misdemeanour.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 161 Location: nairobi
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@muganda, you remind me of those cases where a man gets 10 years for stealing his neighbours chicken while the rich getting away with murder.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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If you are Opting for a bribe free business here in kenya you must be prepare for the harrassment that follows from the corrupt officials. I have been in matatu business for sometime and Initially I tried to be Honest Getting everything required but still the police would impound my mat whenever there was a crackdown,so you are forced to follow the norm:give bribes. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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@Selah: You had another alternative - sell you mat and put the money in another venture; but you chose to sell your principle in order to stay in business... Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/6/2007 Posts: 1,177 Location: Nairobi - Kenya
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well that is a great challenge, you got obligations to fulfill with or without corruption. the good thing is man is very adaptive and has to device means of survival.. When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,117 Location: Nairobi
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@mukiha It is easy to criticize @saleh but there are very few businesses in Kenya that can go 100% scot free. A real pity. I know of a business (manufacturing) jamaa who (claims)does everything by the book. He gets hassled by KRA on & off. He is really fed up. The only 'plus' is that he (says) has nothing to fear. He just tells them to look at whatever they want. All questions to be answered by his accountant/auditor. He never wants to meet the KRA folks. And when he does, never alone. I think he expects them to stop hassling him at some point. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/16/2009 Posts: 152
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This thread reminds of that fable in the woods..ever wondered why in a forest the straight trees r cut down while the crooked ones r let alone? Wel th@'s the case wit our systems. The Strong Do What They Want,The Weak Do What They Must!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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@Zakumi: no wonder the world is turning into a desert...there more straight trees than crooked ones! BTW: who is cutting the trees in this parable? Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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@VVS: it is not criticism; I was only giving a different perspective. I get annoyed when people say they had no other choice but to bribe some guy. There is always another choice. Bribing is just one of them! Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 12/3/2009 Posts: 17
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Untill our systems are changed in a way that will safeguard the complainant, ours will continue to be a MAN EAT MAN SOCIETY. I'm not a pessimist but somethings are just easier said than done....this is one of them. AM NOT A SAINT, UNLESS A SAINT TO YOU IS A SINNER WHO KEEPS ON TRYING
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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I have to agree, always ascribed to no-bribing principle until...
-I was caught by cops for speaking on mobile phone
-refused to bribe and sent to Police station at 11am
-where I asked to pay bail and was told NO just wait to go to court
-had to deposit phone, cash, shoe, belt and wait in Cell
-stayed in Cell for almost 4.5 hours until another police good samaritan [who was removing another convict] convinced cops to let me use my phone plus the cash they had booked in to pay bail
Then look at the other scenario where laws say you should only be charged 70/= for Sat parking but City Council conveniently charge 140/= even for 20mins on Sat. Heck, I took the wrong choice.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/30/2009 Posts: 1,390
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I get very scared every time i think about corruption.The number of corrupt in Kenya should be very close to 100pc if not 100pc.Hw many of us bribe to escape the punishment we deserve?how many will use the influence of a relative or a friend to get a contract, a job or a place in a secondary sch?Yet we rant when our politicians are caught in the same! What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,905
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@kadonye the answer is 100%, we are all capable of corruption [wrong doing]. But perhaps you simplify the issue, I'd say most people are capable of doing the right thing when it comes to punishment we deserve.
What puts the principle to the mettle is how many of us bribe to escape the punishment we DO NOT deserve? Make the @selah or @mukiha's choice even when it costs painfully to do so. That my friend is true test of principle.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/16/2009 Posts: 152
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@mukiha,hehe!ofcourse lumberjerks.i hd an xp wit those kra guys recently & i cn assure you they've mastered the art of soliciting bribes,kwanza the walk in threez;one is very friendly & understanding the other is very harsh and the 3rd is quiet. Their trick,js lyk the council askaris & police,is to compel you to bribe the mr. Understanding,avoid mr.harshnes while mr. Quiet looks on.so b aware. The Strong Do What They Want,The Weak Do What They Must!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/6/2007 Posts: 1,177 Location: Nairobi - Kenya
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@za10 i c uve brushed shoulders with em.. mr. harshness harasses until mr. understanding intervenes with a corrupt solution.. When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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My time is too precious. I can pay just to get such f***s off ma face....If I were to strictly follow Mukiha, someone would end up dead... TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,117 Location: Nairobi
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@mukiha - I know the feeling... I had to fork out 5k + waste 2 days to get my driver out. After all was done, my dereva asked me... Boss, why didn't you just bribe? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 12/7/2009 Posts: 30 Location: Nairobi, Kenya
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is it really still a moral dilemma or we found a convenient solution...bribe all the way.How the hell do we ever expect to get ourselves out of this hole if we cant stop digging? and we complain/ are shocked when grand theft exists, when we loose education funds, HIV/AIDS donor support and the rest? dont get me wrong, i agree with kadonye that 100% of kenyans are corrupt, but the only way to stop this is if we stop ourselves. traveling around we see that less corrupt societies, the population is the moral/ethical compass, THEY 1ST HOLD THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE THEN EXTEND THE SAME TO THEIR GOVTS!! easy way outs will give us the same..high taxes, corrupt govt and institutions. Simply "PUT UP or SHUT UP" .Success is Intentional.
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