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Commercial plots question
MugundaMan
#1 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:44:15 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
I have seen some saccos and land selling companies selling "commercial plots" in freehold land areas, and the prices are always slightly higher than residential plots. What is the definition of a commercial plot in such a setting. Does it mean, for example, someone who buys one can put up a commercial skyscraper or mall there while an ordinary residential plot owner (under freehold) cannot? Thanks in advance wazuans.
wukan
#2 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:39:06 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,590
Those are the areas for setting up of shopping areas. Big subdivisions are required to apportion some areas for such if they are to get approval for sub-division. If it's a residential you will need to set aside land for a market and school etc. Under strict zoning laws you cannot set up commercial building in the residential area. Syokimau started off that way clearly defined commercial areas and residential. Nowadays commercial buildings are coming up all over the place. Mavoko municipality used to enforce/regulate the building development but county govts are quite useless.

Some areas are designated as mixed use development so you can put residential and commercial in the same area and same building. e.g. Kirinyaga road
MugundaMan
#3 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:45:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
wukan wrote:
Those are the areas for setting up of shopping areas. Big subdivisions are required to apportion some areas for such if they are to get approval for sub-division. If it's a residential you will need to set aside land for a market and school etc. Under strict zoning laws you cannot set up commercial building in the residential area. Syokimau started off that way clearly defined commercial areas and residential. Nowadays commercial buildings are coming up all over the place. Mavoko municipality used to enforce/regulate the building development but county govts are quite useless.

Some areas are designated as mixed use development so you can put residential and commercial in the same area and same building. e.g. Kirinyaga road


Makes sense bro thanks. But technically under the absolute ownership entitlement of freehold land, assuming Mugundaman wants to build a 40 storey apartment complex in the bush on his freehold land, does the law forbid this?
wukan
#4 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:59:45 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/13/2015
Posts: 1,590
MugundaMan wrote:
wukan wrote:
Those are the areas for setting up of shopping areas. Big subdivisions are required to apportion some areas for such if they are to get approval for sub-division. If it's a residential you will need to set aside land for a market and school etc. Under strict zoning laws you cannot set up commercial building in the residential area. Syokimau started off that way clearly defined commercial areas and residential. Nowadays commercial buildings are coming up all over the place. Mavoko municipality used to enforce/regulate the building development but county govts are quite useless.

Some areas are designated as mixed use development so you can put residential and commercial in the same area and same building. e.g. Kirinyaga road


Makes sense bro thanks. But technically under the absolute ownership entitlement of freehold land, assuming Mugundaman wants to build a 40 storey apartment complex in the bush on his freehold land, does the law forbid this?


There is dept called physical planning. They designate different areas for different uses e.g. agricultural land if you want to convert to commercial you must make a change of user application.
MugundaMan
#5 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 12:57:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Quote:
Kenyan land system is defined by the Constitution of Kenya, the Land Registration Act and the Land Act. It is classified into:

Public land - reserved for public use or environmental protection. It is administered and managed by National Land Commission on behalf of the people of Kenya.

Community land - it is held by communities on basis of ethnicity, culture or similar community interest.
Private land - this is land held by natural or legal persons. The Ministry of lands is tasked with the registration of any interest in private Land. It is classified into the following land tenure system;

Freehold land tenure system - it gives the holder absolute ownership of the land for life. A freehold title deed generally has no restrictions as to the use and occupation of the land. However there are some conditional freeholds which may restrict the use of land for agricultural uses only.

Leasehold land tenure system - this is the interest in land for a specific period of time subject to payment of land rent to the National government and land rates to the county governments. Once a lease expires the land reverts back to the owner or the leaseholder can apply for a renewal or extension of the lease.
https://eregulations.invest.go.ke/menu/117?l=en


I thought non-agricultural freehold means no restrictions whatsoever. I guess that is what I am trying to understand. Leasehold in the urban areas and townships requires change of user etc but I thought freehold was unrestricted. The problem with Kenya is too many overlapping and disjointed laws and no clarity. To add insult to injury, gava in recent years authorised the retention of freehold interest during change of user in urban areas which further muddies the waters!
kayhara
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 4:42:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 1,059
According to this guy zoning is crap

To Each His Own
Xymalos
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:07:07 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 97
Location: Kenya
MugundaMan wrote:
I have seen some saccos and land selling companies selling "commercial plots" in freehold land areas, and the prices are always slightly higher than residential plots. What is the definition of a commercial plot in such a setting. Does it mean, for example, someone who buys one can put up a commercial skyscraper or mall there while an ordinary residential plot owner (under freehold) cannot? Thanks in advance wazuans.


I bought the so called "Commercial" sold by Ndatani near Newlight School in Kitengela but title deed is categorized the same as residential plots. In most cases, the so called commercial plots by land sellers are just a marketing gimmick (you pay more), and you would have to do a Change of User to commercial or Business-cum-residential plot.
muandiwambeu
#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:43:46 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
MugundaMan wrote:
Quote:
Kenyan land system is defined by the Constitution of Kenya, the Land Registration Act and the Land Act. It is classified into:

Public land - reserved for public use or environmental protection. It is administered and managed by National Land Commission on behalf of the people of Kenya.

Community land - it is held by communities on basis of ethnicity, culture or similar community interest.
Private land - this is land held by natural or legal persons. The Ministry of lands is tasked with the registration of any interest in private Land. It is classified into the following land tenure system;

Freehold land tenure system - it gives the holder absolute ownership of the land for life. A freehold title deed generally has no restrictions as to the use and occupation of the land. However there are some conditional freeholds which may restrict the use of land for agricultural uses only.

Leasehold land tenure system - this is the interest in land for a specific period of time subject to payment of land rent to the National government and land rates to the county governments. Once a lease expires the land reverts back to the owner or the leaseholder can apply for a renewal or extension of the lease.
https://eregulations.invest.go.ke/menu/117?l=en


I thought non-agricultural freehold means no restrictions whatsoever. I guess that is what I am trying to understand. Leasehold in the urban areas and townships requires change of user etc but I thought freehold was unrestricted. The problem with Kenya is too many overlapping and disjointed laws and no clarity. To add insult to injury, gava in recent years authorised the retention of freehold interest during change of user in urban areas which further muddies the waters!

By default its your right to till farm harvest and live in your freehold land but not to commercialised it in any way. Mining below the Earth is not your right too. In any case, that kamblot of yours u haveeased it from queen, yes that mother of ours convoluted and involuted land ordinances and ownership rits to the advantage of the government. Technically, change of user are subject to vetting by your neighbours against your guts
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
MugundaMan
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2018 7:11:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Xymalos wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
I have seen some saccos and land selling companies selling "commercial plots" in freehold land areas, and the prices are always slightly higher than residential plots. What is the definition of a commercial plot in such a setting. Does it mean, for example, someone who buys one can put up a commercial skyscraper or mall there while an ordinary residential plot owner (under freehold) cannot? Thanks in advance wazuans.


I bought the so called "Commercial" sold by Ndatani near Newlight School in Kitengela but title deed is categorized the same as residential plots. In most cases, the so called commercial plots by land sellers are just a marketing gimmick (you pay more), and you would have to do a Change of User to commercial or Business-cum-residential plot.


Thank you brother! You have in fact 100% answered my question. I think what these companies do is submit "proposed plans" to the county regarding what they want in the subdivisions (residential& commercial) without attaining change of user for the commercial ones, because they know how cumbersome and costly the process is. I guess when they say "commercial" all they are telling the buyer is that you and your fellow commercial plot owners are the only ones with the right to obtain a change of user in that particular estate, which perhaps counts for something.
MugundaMan
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2018 7:13:34 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
muandiwambeu wrote:

By default its your right to till farm harvest and live in your freehold land but not to commercialised it in any way. Mining below the Earth is not your right too. In any case, that kamblot of yours u haveeased it from queen, yes that mother of ours convoluted and involuted land ordinances and ownership rits to the advantage of the government. Technically, change of user are subject to vetting by your neighbours against your guts


Makes sense. Asante!
MugundaMan
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 12, 2018 2:29:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,211
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)


Interesting take
mawinder
#12 Posted : Sunday, September 16, 2018 1:18:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
If the land is freehold, title is freehold, what shows it is commercial/residential? What would happen if I were to plant maize or rear pigs in the plot? Would there be any basis of legal action against me?
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