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When we had good leaders....
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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What an irony! Both the k1ller and the k1lled in the same page?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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AlphDoti wrote:What an irony! Both the k1ller and the k1lled in the same page? I believe you mean Mboya and JahRamogi. They were enemies in nyanza coz mboya was Jomo's right hand man.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:What an irony! Both the k1ller and the k1lled in the same page? I believe you mean Mboya and JahRamogi. They were enemies in nyanza coz mboya was Jomo's right hand man. I mean Mb0ya and J0m0...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:What an irony! Both the k1ller and the k1lled in the same page? I believe you mean Mboya and JahRamogi. They were enemies in nyanza coz mboya was Jomo's right hand man. I mean Mb0ya and J0m0... It's a common held belief that Jomo killed Tom. Highly unlikely that the belief is factual Hint: Jomo had suffered a heart attack in 1968
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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The leaders we have today are a crop of the seeds planted by the founders.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2018 Posts: 428
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Jomo Kenyatta and his inner circle killed all the good leaders of that era Pinto, Ngala, Mboya, JM, Karumba and others. No real investigation ever happened.
He also sidelined and humiliated Oginga, Kaggia, Shikuku, Oneko, Muliro and others.
Moi for his part likely killed Ouko, Muliro and also anyone related to the Ouko inquiry such as Philip Kilonzo.
They created a culture where sycophancy and theft of public resources thrived.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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radiomast wrote:Jomo Kenyatta and his inner circle killed all the good leaders of that era Pinto, Ngala, Mboya, JM, Karumba and others. No real investigation ever happened.
He also sidelined and humiliated Oginga, Kaggia, Shikuku, Oneko, Muliro and others.
Moi for his part likely killed Ouko, Muliro and also anyone related to the Ouko inquiry such as Philip Kilonzo.
They created a culture where sycophancy and theft of public resources thrived.
Wrong. Mboya was Jomo's closest friend and right hand man. However JahRamogi wasn't happy with that since at the time he had fallen out with Jomo. Also note that Mboya was KANU secretary general with Jomo as chairman while Jahramogi was in the opposition KPU fighting kanu, Jomo and Mboya. No way Jomo could have harmed Mboya, his closest and most trusted lieutenant.    
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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The Jaramogi vs Mboya political wars. It is mboya as KANU secretary general who finished Jaramogi politically. Mboya was Odinga's enemy no 1. https://www.the-star.co....wo-superpowers_c1162563
Quote:The intense political rivalry between Jaramogi, then Vice President of the country, and Kanu, and Mboya, the party's secretary general, played out in many platforms, one being the infamous delegates conference at Limuru as a display of wits and power.
The delegates resolution to abolish the party vice presidential post was the first in a series of dress rehearsals for the reversals in Jaramogi's political fortunes.
Eight vice presidential positions were created and held by among others, those who lived to succeed the ailing President Jomo Kenyatta, Daniel arap Moi and his successor Mwai Kibaki. They were named vice presidents in the Rift Valley and Nairobi, respectively, and the duo assumed power when Kenyatta died in 1978.
To add insult to injury, Mboya initiated a constitutional amendment to halt the exodus of Jaramogi's parliamentary sympathisers to his newly founded opposition party the Kenya Peoples Union. The few who dared cross the floor were subjected to a by-election, according to the amended clause that compels a parliamentarian who changes parties to seek fresh mandate from the electorate. Out of the 27 defectors, only nine made it back to Parliament.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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https://www.nation.co.ke...7700-11jfjhf/index.html
Daily Nation wrote:The perceived rivalry between former Prime Minister Raila Odinga and Nairobi Governor Evans Kidero rekindles memories of bad blood between the doyen of Kenyan opposition politics Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, Mr Odinga’s father, and the late politician Thomas Mboya who is Dr Kidero’s late father-in-law.
The two were not the best of friends with the senior Odinga seeing Mr Mboya as over mixing with the government of President Jomo Kenyatta. They often engaged in supremacy wars over who exactly was the leader of the Luo people, with Mr Mboya often dismissed as being a Suba and not Luo.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:What an irony! Both the k1ller and the k1lled in the same page? I believe you mean Mboya and JahRamogi. They were enemies in nyanza coz mboya was Jomo's right hand man. I mean Mb0ya and J0m0... You seem not to know Kenya's history. Mboya was like what Tuju is today i.e. Secretary general of the ruling party and seen as an "enemy" by the Odingas. If anything were to happen to Touju (God forbid) where should one look? Ouru camp or baba camp?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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radiomast wrote:Jomo Kenyatta and his inner circle killed all the good leaders of that era Pinto, Ngala, Mboya, JM, Karumba and others. No real investigation ever happened.
He also sidelined and humiliated Oginga, Kaggia, Shikuku, Oneko, Muliro and others.
Moi for his part likely killed Ouko, Muliro and also anyone related to the Ouko inquiry such as Philip Kilonzo.
They created a culture where sycophancy and theft of public resources thrived.
Just because Kibaki fell out with raila, kalonzo, ngilu and others after 2002 and they went ahead to form ODM to oppose kibaki it doesn't mean he sidelined and humiliated them. People differ politically all the time. It's what politics is all about. Politics is a competition for power and you can't tell your competitor what move to make. Odinga snr, Kagia, Muliro etc defected from Jomo's Kanu to form KPU, just like Raila & co. defected from NARC to form ODM. What did you want Jomo or kibaki to do? To go and kneel before the Odingas so that they couldn't leave?  
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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radiomast wrote:Jomo Kenyatta and his inner circle killed all the good leaders of that era Pinto, Ngala, Mboya, JM, Karumba and others. No real investigation ever happened.
He also sidelined and humiliated Oginga, Kaggia, Shikuku, Oneko, Muliro and others.
Moi for his part likely killed Ouko, Muliro and also anyone related to the Ouko inquiry such as Philip Kilonzo.
They created a culture where sycophancy and theft of public resources thrived.
Mulitaka Kenyatta afanye nini? Handshake? Quote:The Kenya People's Union (KPU) was a socialist political party in Kenya led by Oginga Odinga. In March 1966 a left-wing faction of the governing Kenya African National Union (KANU) instigated a mass defection from the party and formed the KPU. A series of by-elections were held in Kenya on 11 and 12 June 1966, becoming known as the "little general election". They followed the defection of 29 members of the Kenya African National Union (KANU) to establish the Kenya People's Union. As a result, the KANU government passed a constitutional amendment to force the MPs to seek re-election. All MPs who defected to the KPU were nominated by the party to contest their seats. The KPU had wide support in the country although they were strongest amongst the Luo people in Nyanza province. KPU candidates in then Kikuyu-dominated Central province were trounced by KANU. KANU won most seats in the election.
KPU Leader Oginga Odinga KPU Deputy Leader Bildad Kaggia
The following politicians were affiliated with KPU. In the parenthesis is the constituency they represented.
Okuto Bala (Nyando) Ondiek Chilo (Nyakach) Bildad Kaggia (Kandara) Luke Rarieya Obok (Alego) John Odero-Sar (Ugenya) Oginga Odinga (Bondo) Tom Okello-Odongo (Kisumu Rural) George Fredrick Oduya (Elgon West) Achieng Oneko (Nakuru Town) Joseph Mwasia Nthula (Iveti South) Wasonga Sijeyo (Gem)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@hardwood, Jaramogi and Mboya were never friends but it's highly unlikely that he was to blame. Jomo's govt would have been happy to have him tried for it. It had to be people thinking about succession politics. Kenyatta was already gray and sickly.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Kenyanfacts wrote:Thomas Joseph Mboya vs Jaramogi Oginga Odinga
· Some (specific) Kenyan politicians are known for peddling falsehoods; distorting and dislocating historical facts. One such falsehood concerns the relationship between Tom Mboya and Jaramogi.
· Well, let us walk together and interrogate tangible facts. Maybe then you can make up your mind about who, in actual fact, fought the other. Is it Mboya or Jaramogi? Sir Michael Blundell wrote in his book, “In love with the sunshine” that “before the colonial period, the heartland of the Luo people was a self-contained area with a subsistence economy…Land was adequate. The people of the districts were nudists.” He went on to say that those who ventured out “into the outer world to earn money and get education”, undoubtedly, “wore clothes.” Differences started showing between those who ventured out (in search of greener pastures) and those who remained behind (at home).
· According to Blundell, Mboya represented and identified (or stood for) the adventurous lot, those “who had ventured out”, while “Jaramogi represented, identified and stood for those who remained at home”; Mboya yearned for “progress and represented a modern and sophisticated Kenyan society”, while Jaramogi “represented African traditions, old customs. Jaramogi resisted change.
· A British MP, John Stonehouse, put it more bluntly: “Oginga Odinga hated Tom Mboya. Odinga felt that (as the elder) he should have the respect and submission of Mboya…But Mboya was intellectually superior.” After the Lancaster House Conference, Blundell observed that “Mboya created the image of a reasoned operative”, while Jaramogi came out “as incoherent, with the suspicions that he was influenced by support from communists further denting his image.”
· As member of the Legislative Council, Jaramogi vehemently opposed/resisted soil conservation and terracing of cultivated land, dismissing the strong support for soil conservation as “colonial tyranny!”; Blundell later went on to say that when he (Blundell) was Minister for Agriculture, “one of the measures proposed was to increase the mesh size of fishing nets so that the young fish could escape and grow on to maturity. Oginga Odinga would have none of it and condemned it as an infringement on the people’s right to fish how and where they liked.” Jaramogi also opposed the campaign by agricultural officers to destroy the dangerous parasitic weed called ‘striga’ which was ruining crops in the maize fields of Western Kenya and which remains a menace to date, courtesy of Jaramogi’s intransigence!
· In 1957, during the first general elections in which Africans contested, as candidates and voters, Jaramogi opposed Mboya’s candidature in Nairobi. Nevertheless, Mboya defeated Jaramogi’s candidate Argwings Kodhek to become the first African to be declared elected member of the Legislative Council (Legco) of Kenya. Due to emergency (repressive) laws, Africans were still not allowed to form nationwide political parties or organisations. Mboya’s first agenda in the Legco was to introduce a motion to overturn that draconian piece of legislation and the restriction thereupon.
· After a “reasonable time period”, following Mboya’s motion, the restriction was lifted; and African nationalists’ first order of business was to form KANU, in Kiambu. Jaramogi was in Kiambu to ensure that his enemy, Tom Mboya, was not elected to any of the national posts in the new party, KANU. He (Jaramogi) sponsored Arthur Ochwada against Mboya and “spent heavily bribing delegates.” Mboya was “distressed” by the conspiracy but weathered the storm, winning by only one vote to become KANU’s first Secretary General! Odinga did not give up.
· A year later, Mboya intended to stand in the newly created Nairobi East constituency. About 70% of the registered voters (in the new constituency) were Kikuyu and Jaramogi smelt another chance to try and humiliate Mboya: he sponsored Dr. Munyua Waiyaki to stand against Tom Mboya. Waiyaki was beaten spectacularly: Mboya got over 30 thousands votes to Waiyaki’s over 1 thousand!
· One year later, as Mboya was visiting Ghana at the invitation of President Kwame Nkurumah, and to attend the first All African People’s Conference, Jaramogi “quickly organised the removal of Tom Mboya as Secretary General of African Elected Members Organisation (AEMO).” This “attracted furious all-round resistance; and Mboya was re-instated by unanimous consensus upon his return from Accra!” Jaramogi who had to lick his wounds, yet again, was said to be “burning with rage.” Jaramogi never gave up! He tried something more daring, dramatic but fraught with danger.
· On 5th July, 1965, Jaramogi, used his disciple Wanguhu Ng’ang’a, then a lecturer at Lumumba Institute, to stage a coup de tat, at the KANU headquarters, to kick out Mboya for him. Using raw violence, Ng’ang’a stormed KANU headquarters, then situated along Mfangano Street, accompanied by 27 goons/supporters of Jaramogi and declared that Tom Mboya had been ousted as Secretary General of KANU! Upon receipt of the news of the “attempted coup”, President Mzee Jomo Kenyatta, who was also the President of KANU, was said to have become “very angry!”
· On Mzee Jomo Kenyatta’s instructions, the entire group of 27 (goons) was arrested, charged and sentenced, pronto, to imprisonment of one year each, for the “breach of the peace.” To show the seriousness of the matter, Mzee Kenyatta ordered the (then) Attorney General, Charles Njonjo, to appear in Court and to personally prosecute the case. In his brief remarks, Njonjo, told the court that the violence had been “masterminded by someone in high circles in this country.” Njonjo meant Jaramogi!
· Tom Mboya’s patience snapped after the violence of 5th July, 1965! He decided to teach Jaramogi elementary lessons in political coup de tats, some organisational skills, some political good manners, etc. A special delegates’ conference of KANU was (hurriedly) convened at Limuru, in 1966: Jaramogi’s portfolio of Vice-President, which he had used to undermine both Mboya (and Mzee Jomo Kenyatta) was abolished and 8 new Provincial VPs created! A bitter Jaramogi walked out and went on to form the Kenya People’s Union (KPU).
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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tycho wrote:The leaders we have today are a crop of the seeds planted by the founders. the apple doesn't fall far from the tree,
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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Lolest! wrote:@hardwood, Jaramogi and Mboya were never friends but it's highly unlikely that he was to blame. Jomo's govt would have been happy to have him tried for it.
It had to be people thinking about succession politics. Kenyatta was already gray and sickly. Could the russians have meddled in kenyan politics? Note that Mboya and Kenyatta were pro-west while Jahramogi was pro-russia. And with the ageing Jomo, Mboya was the heir apparent to lead kanu and govt. It was during the cold war and the superpowers were fighting (via proxies/puppets) for world domination.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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So far, we seem to have no way of knowing and differentiating between good and bad leaders.
While we may know who killed who in the past, if there's no clear strategy for the use of the knowledge, then it's better not to know the truth.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2018 Posts: 428
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hardwood wrote:Lolest! wrote:@hardwood, Jaramogi and Mboya were never friends but it's highly unlikely that he was to blame. Jomo's govt would have been happy to have him tried for it.
It had to be people thinking about succession politics. Kenyatta was already gray and sickly. Could the russians have meddled in kenyan politics? Note that Mboya and Kenyatta were pro-west while Jahramogi was pro-russia. And with the ageing Jomo, Mboya was the heir apparent to lead kanu and govt. It was during the cold war and the superpowers were fighting (via proxies/puppets) for world domination. Hardwoods attempts at re-writing history are rather comical.But its part of a scheme by various journalists to tell blatant lies. The person who was convicted of shooting Mboya was one Nahashon Njenga Njoroge. When he was arrested, he said there were higher people involved in the plot. Yet the judge ruled out any discussion about who was really behind the plot to kill Mboya. Question: If Oginga was involved, don't you think gava would have performed a thorough investigation, question Mr. Njoroge and gotten to the bottom of who was really behind the plot to kill Mboya?. It would have been a perfect opportunity to finish Odinga.Instead gava engaged in a stage managaed trial, no witnesses were called, no journalists witnessed the trial which was held in secret. There was no discussion of any accomplices even though Njoroge said there were higher people involved. In the end Njoroge was executed in secret. His body was never found. Sounds like a cover-up by an incumbent government, not an opposition leader.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2018 Posts: 428
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hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:hardwood wrote:AlphDoti wrote:What an irony! Both the k1ller and the k1lled in the same page? I believe you mean Mboya and JahRamogi. They were enemies in nyanza coz mboya was Jomo's right hand man. I mean Mb0ya and J0m0... You seem not to know Kenya's history. Mboya was like what Tuju is today i.e. Secretary general of the ruling party and seen as an "enemy" by the Odingas. If anything were to happen to Touju (God forbid) where should one look? Ouru camp or baba camp? Comparing Tuju to Mboya is ridiculous. Mboya was beloved all over the country. When he died, the whole country wept. He was respected all over the world. This is a guy who gave speeches alongside Martin Luther King. Tuju is just a psycophant who is in it for the money he is paid. Nobody gives him a second thought.
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