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"Honest" matatu makanga
Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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Lately I have been reading everywhere about a certain matatu tout who found 30k and gave it back to the rightful owner. Now he (tout) is being showered with all sorts of goodies including money from well-wishers and even school fees to go back to school. My question is, why are we rewarding this guy for doing what he was supposed to do? Is our society that tainted to the point where we are rewarding people for being honest?
I keep seeing people getting shocked when they hear stories of people refunding Mpesa money sent to them by mistake. I once received 70k that was inadvertently sent to me. As soon as I got the Mpesa text, I called the person back to let him know know that he had sent money to the wrong person then sent it right back without even thinking twice. I even incurred transaction fees of a couple hundred shillings or so sending back the money. I did that because that was not my money and had I kept it then that would have been stealing. The guy who had sent the money called me thanking me profusely and even wanted us to meet and buy me lunch but I politely declined the offer because I really didn't think it was necessary.
To this day, I don't think what I did was a big deal. It was the right thing to do and it was someone else's money. Maybe the money was to pay for his children's school fees or a hospital bill, I don't know, but it was his sweat and we should never ever be rewarded for doing what we are supposed to do. I am still in awe over how people are falling over themselves wanting to reward this "honest" tout for returning something that was not his in the first place. There are so many other things that deserve rewards, but this is not one of them. This just shows how corrupted our society is if we are rewarding people for being honest. It speaks volumes about us as a people.
Or maybe am the one who is missing something here? I just don't get it. Maybe we shouldn't be so butt-hurt when Trump calls us shit hole nations. Just maybe.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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Interesting how we Kenyans get shocked when someone does the right thing which you'd think should be the norm in a country of 90% religious people. Clearly, this government is the mirror of its citizens so maybe we should stop throwing stones... and work hard for our turns BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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2012 wrote:Interesting how we Kenyans get shocked when someone does the right thing which you'd think should be the norm in a country of 90% religious people. Clearly, this government is the mirror of its citizens so maybe we should stop throwing stones... and work hard for our turns Listen - a society is a product of what it values and celebrates! if you celebrate and value honesty and only honest people get ahead - you end up having an honest society. it's a feedback loop! It plays out everywhere - if you are a rich person in Central - everyone sucks up to you and thus the society aspires to be rich. if you have book knowledge and no money - people kinda don't treat you as they would a rich person. in Luo nyanza it was education - if you had PhDs - you get listened to and thus society there does the same. watu wa mashamba? not that these things are bad however if we would just do the same to 'honest' riches and 'honest' mashamba and 'honest' education (not sleeping your way to the top) and we treated dishonesty in the same way we treat pick pockets - we would go somewhere. if only we would stop using terms such as 'kujipanga' or 'kuchanuka' to rationalize dishonesty - however, this is easier said than done. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Google you'll find the article wrote:Sergio Juarez, an unemployed custodian living in a Motel 6 with his wife and children, found the money order a week ago on a street in Imperial Beach, tracked down the owner, Yesenia Ortiz-Del Valle, and returned it.
When she learned about his living situation, she started a GoFundMe campaign on the internet, posted an item on Facebook and called a local radio station, Magic 92.5.
“I figured maybe we could raise a few thousand bucks, enough to get them into an apartment somewhere,” she said.
But as sometimes happens in the fast-paced, emotionally charged world of social media, the story of a down-on-his-luck Good Samaritan spread. San Diego TV stations and websites did reports. CNN and other news outlets across the country picked it up.
By Wednesday morning, the fund had climbed to nearly $14,000. Several companies had reached out to Juarez with job interviews. A dentist offered to fix his teeth. A limo company donated a ride to the prom for his three high-schoolers. A woman in Illinois asked about sending the family clothes. So why did these Americans reward this Honest Homeless guy? Simple - Empathy! We are human "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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murchr wrote:Google you'll find the article wrote:Sergio Juarez, an unemployed custodian living in a Motel 6 with his wife and children, found the money order a week ago on a street in Imperial Beach, tracked down the owner, Yesenia Ortiz-Del Valle, and returned it.
When she learned about his living situation, she started a GoFundMe campaign on the internet, posted an item on Facebook and called a local radio station, Magic 92.5.
“I figured maybe we could raise a few thousand bucks, enough to get them into an apartment somewhere,” she said.
But as sometimes happens in the fast-paced, emotionally charged world of social media, the story of a down-on-his-luck Good Samaritan spread. San Diego TV stations and websites did reports. CNN and other news outlets across the country picked it up.
By Wednesday morning, the fund had climbed to nearly $14,000. Several companies had reached out to Juarez with job interviews. A dentist offered to fix his teeth. A limo company donated a ride to the prom for his three high-schoolers. A woman in Illinois asked about sending the family clothes. So why did these Americans reward this Honest Homeless guy? Simple - Empathy! We are human Different scenario. The reason why this guy was rewarded is because he was unemployed and living in a motel 6. They were not so much rewarding him for his honesty per say, they raised the money mostly to help him get into an apartment somewhere. Am sure if this were some regular guy doing well in life and living somewhere in the suburbs, this deed would not had made headlines as it did for this guy. Because it would have been expected of him to return the money order and that would have been the end of the story. The Americans were helping a guy that was down on his luck, not neccessarily because he had been honest. That's how i see it. They were being empathetic about the guy's situation, the Kenyan makanga on the other hand was rewarded primarily because he did something that is out of the norm for majority of Kenyans. Being honest. That's why it's all over the news because it's not expected in this country. Americans are very empathetic towards situations like homelessness and they will help a family like this one whenever they have a chance to.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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hamburglar wrote:murchr wrote:Google you'll find the article wrote:Sergio Juarez, an unemployed custodian living in a Motel 6 with his wife and children, found the money order a week ago on a street in Imperial Beach, tracked down the owner, Yesenia Ortiz-Del Valle, and returned it.
When she learned about his living situation, she started a GoFundMe campaign on the internet, posted an item on Facebook and called a local radio station, Magic 92.5.
“I figured maybe we could raise a few thousand bucks, enough to get them into an apartment somewhere,” she said.
But as sometimes happens in the fast-paced, emotionally charged world of social media, the story of a down-on-his-luck Good Samaritan spread. San Diego TV stations and websites did reports. CNN and other news outlets across the country picked it up.
By Wednesday morning, the fund had climbed to nearly $14,000. Several companies had reached out to Juarez with job interviews. A dentist offered to fix his teeth. A limo company donated a ride to the prom for his three high-schoolers. A woman in Illinois asked about sending the family clothes. So why did these Americans reward this Honest Homeless guy? Simple - Empathy! We are human Different scenario. The reason why this guy was rewarded is because he was unemployed and living in a motel 6. They were not so much rewarding him for his honesty per say, they raised the money mostly to help him get into an apartment somewhere. Am sure if this were some regular guy doing well in life and living somewhere in the suburbs, this deed would not had made headlines as it did for this guy. Because it would have been expected of him to return the money order and that would have been the end of the story. The Americans were helping a guy that was down on his luck, not neccessarily because he had been honest. That's how i see it. They were being empathetic about the guy's situation, the Kenyan makanga on the other hand was rewarded primarily because he did something that is out of the norm for majority of Kenyans. Being honest. That's why it's all over the news because it's not expected in this country. Americans are very empathetic towards situations like homelessness and they will help a family like this one whenever they have a chance to. So Kenyans are not empathetic to this makanga just rewarding him by even sending him to school? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Is there an instance where it would have been better for the tout to keep the money?
What would happen if the tout had known that the money was the earnings of a pickpocket?
It's not always good to return money to people who've dropped them accidentally.
So, the tout must have made a calculation.
'No. It can't be! Hii ni majaribu'.
Lakini si hata Githeri man alipewa zawadi?
Maybe Kenyans love giving zawadis but watunukiwa ndio wachache.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,547 Location: nairobi
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I sent some cash to his mpesa after watching the story on Amina's The Trend, who shared his line.. Its simply not easy to do what the guy did. Kudos to him HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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The average matatu tout in the street is one who cons you out of even 100bob. The streets are awash with stories of makangas who will refuse with your change in very many varied versions. This guy then is being honored simply for doing the right thing, hopefully the rest can copy from him. And he isn't the first really to be pointed out. We recently had the other one who was helping a cucu to cross the road, yet we are used to makangas who wont even wait for you to alight before asking dere to vamuuz. Earlier on we celebrated a particular matatu that takes physically challenged people to their work place opposite ABC Place. The issue is, if we are quick to expose those who do wrong when we have an opportunity, why not celebrate to who stand out when the opportunity is there? There are many who do good yes even away from the camera, but if an opportunity arises to celebrate one, there is nothing wrong with that. Honestly speaking, he is not your average makanga...an average one will take your 20bob, this returned 30k. That is something worth celebrating, at least to show how we should behave.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. nani alikuzaa wewe? So unasema tukituma pesa by mistake, we steal/hack recepients phone to return our money? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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hamburglar wrote: Different scenario. The reason why this guy was rewarded is because he was unemployed and living in a motel 6. They were not so much rewarding him for his honesty per say, they raised the money mostly to help him get into an apartment somewhere. Am sure if this were some regular guy doing well in life and living somewhere in the suburbs, this deed would not had made headlines as it did for this guy. Because it would have been expected of him to return the money order and that would have been the end of the story.
The Americans were helping a guy that was down on his luck, not neccessarily because he had been honest. That's how i see it. They were being empathetic about the guy's situation, the Kenyan makanga on the other hand was rewarded primarily because he did something that is out of the norm for majority of Kenyans. Being honest. That's why it's all over the news because it's not expected in this country. Americans are very empathetic towards situations like homelessness and they will help a family like this one whenever they have a chance to.
Similar scenario! A Nairobi makanga will most likely be making 30K a month. Hardly the money to afford a good life but is still better than being jobless. Even in Kenya, if an uptown fellow came upon such money, it would not have made it to the news. And it's honest makanga not "honest". But I agree, we are one very dishonest nation.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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2012 wrote: Clearly, this government is the mirror of its citizens so maybe we should stop throwing stones... and work hard for our turns My thoughts exactly! If I become somebody big in a public entity and don't steal or hire people from my area(or relatives) people will be saying things like "Hata hakuwahi jisaidia hiyo miaka yote. Angalia wenzake vile wameendelea" "Alitusaidiaje vile alikuwa mkubwa huko? Nilitaka anipatie kazi akakataa akaniambia niapply"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! VALUES, its right to question, what drives them? We could pursue all sorts of logical avenues to deal with such, even create 'a finders keepers law', but there is non for sure, not unless a judge declares it yours, i guess such laws may have existed in several ancient savage civilizations, some sort of 'legal corruption' but they definitely collapsed, and i can guarantee you such a law will be chaotic, stealing is not this complicated, even with phone being "technology" does not create a new scenario, same old logic about whats not yours, you can make a "using mpesa is illegal but keeping and refusing to return is ok kinda law" however, i know it is impossible to distinguish your mpesa, from another persons mpesa in terms of spending, if i have 5k in my mpesa, i inadvertently receive 1k, have a Nyang Nyongo 3k lunch, have i spent your money yet or when exactly do i begin spending it, if i use all of it and remain with zero, and ten minutes later, i receive 10k from a friend, is your 1k inside this ten k or am i too late and have spent your money? What if i refund you at this point? she was jailed for being a thief and staling money which she knows is not hers by not refunding it, stealing is stealing, calling safaricom customer service is free, not unless you argue you are "saving energy and saliva" lakini watu watajua hiyo ni ukora tu. A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! I can confidently say you can blame the hogwash for writing she was jailed for "using" , wana shida ya lugha na kuelewa mambo saa zingine kama sisi tu. A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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With bitcoin however, which is some sort of modification of "mpesa wallets" and ledgers, you are allowed to "steal", because you have no way of tracing the sender, i opened a bitcoin wallet 5 years ago but did not use it, i have a feeling there are bitcoins in it, because many bitcoin thieves would stash stolen coins in "stray accounts', i still have my key, if i find bitcoins inside, i donno what to do, maybe send to charity, this is just one of the problems with bitcoins, its a good money system for thieves and thugs A New Kenya
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! VALUES, its right to question, what drives them? We could pursue all sorts of logical avenues to deal with such, even create 'a finders keepers law', but there is non for sure, not unless a judge declares it yours, i guess such laws may have existed in several ancient savage civilizations, some sort of 'legal corruption' but they definitely collapsed, and i can guarantee you such a law will be chaotic, stealing is not this complicated, even with phone being "technology" does not create a new scenario, same old logic about whats not yours, you can make a "using mpesa is illegal but keeping and refusing to return is ok kinda law" however, i know it is impossible to distinguish your mpesa, from another persons mpesa in terms of spending, if i have 5k in my mpesa, i inadvertently receive 1k, have a Nyang Nyongo 3k lunch, have i spent your money yet or when exactly do i begin spending it, if i use all of it and remain with zero, and ten minutes later, i receive 10k from a friend, is your 1k inside this ten k or am i too late and have spent your money? What if i refund you at this point? she was jailed for being a thief and staling money which she knows is not hers by not refunding it, stealing is stealing, calling safaricom customer service is free, not unless you argue you are "saving energy and saliva" lakini watu watajua hiyo ni ukora tu. This is where we africans go wrong and still wonder why we are behind... we are just lazy! we don't care about documenting these so called values and codifying them into LAWS! Laws don't have to be just - they just need to be laws! once "it is written" - it's final until it's unwritten. In Nairobi there is still a by-law that prohibits "rainwater harvesting" - change it... don't be lazy and skirt around it. Law making is work - give that work to people who can make laws not charlatans. anyway - I digress... back to values - values mean nothing and are not binding! if you want consistent application of something - get a law in place. I don't have to return MPESA money to you much in the same way I have to return a ball that has been kicked into my compound. Wewe - kuja uchukuwe. I don't have to pick your call after you call me... my phone is for my convenience not yours. She confessed to it all... she did not deny anything. ukinitumia pesa halafu ujaribu kunipigia nikatae kuchukuwa? I don't pick calls from strange numbers during my meditation time. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/6/2008 Posts: 3,548
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masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Much Know wrote:masukuma wrote:Here is something you should all know - while it's GOOD for him to send the money back - yeye sio Karari yako! sio lazima atume! sio kazi yake. Ulituma kimakosa kwa nini? it's not theft! it's your carelessness! you drop your money in my pocket and start complaining when I don't return it to you? You are supposed to be thankful but not feel entitled to me returning it. AM 100% sure its now THE LAW that you should return in Kenya, a woman was jailed recently for not returning, and that set a good PRECEDENT on this issue, even what you pick, you should take to the police station, it is STEALING, its theft pure and simple and very poor morals, do we need LAWS to FORCE people to do the right thing? Do we need to "police" people so that they can return what is not theirs, as humburgler is claiming, this is the root of our problems, how can we eliminate this kind of thinking and save the country billions and billions for policing people which we can use to build all houses, buy food etc and live in plenty? Was she jailed for 'not returning' or for 'spending it'? I am not required to raise a finger towards your goodwill! VALUES, its right to question, what drives them? We could pursue all sorts of logical avenues to deal with such, even create 'a finders keepers law', but there is non for sure, not unless a judge declares it yours, i guess such laws may have existed in several ancient savage civilizations, some sort of 'legal corruption' but they definitely collapsed, and i can guarantee you such a law will be chaotic, stealing is not this complicated, even with phone being "technology" does not create a new scenario, same old logic about whats not yours, you can make a "using mpesa is illegal but keeping and refusing to return is ok kinda law" however, i know it is impossible to distinguish your mpesa, from another persons mpesa in terms of spending, if i have 5k in my mpesa, i inadvertently receive 1k, have a Nyang Nyongo 3k lunch, have i spent your money yet or when exactly do i begin spending it, if i use all of it and remain with zero, and ten minutes later, i receive 10k from a friend, is your 1k inside this ten k or am i too late and have spent your money? What if i refund you at this point? she was jailed for being a thief and staling money which she knows is not hers by not refunding it, stealing is stealing, calling safaricom customer service is free, not unless you argue you are "saving energy and saliva" lakini watu watajua hiyo ni ukora tu. This is where we africans go wrong and still wonder why we are behind... we are just lazy! we don't care about documenting these so called values and codifying them into LAWS! Laws don't have to be just - they just need to be laws! once "it is written" - it's final until it's unwritten. In Nairobi there is still a by-law that prohibits "rainwater harvesting" - change it... don't be lazy and skirt around it. Law making is work - give that work to people who can make laws not charlatans. anyway - I digress... back to values - values mean nothing and are not binding! if you want consistent application of something - get a law in place. I don't have to return MPESA money to you much in the same way I have to return a ball that has been kicked into my compound. Wewe - kuja uchukuwe. I don't have to pick your call after you call me... my phone is for my convenience not yours. She confessed to it all... she did not deny anything. ukinitumia pesa halafu ujaribu kunipigia nikatae kuchukuwa? I don't pick calls from strange numbers during my meditation time. Agreed, everybody is wondering how to deal with the issue of our law dept. even Uhuru was begging for laws the other day, hapa ni failure kabisa, because they wait for wazungus instructions with their kingoso wigs, even in mpesa where Kenyans have been leading the way, such a simple issue as law on sending money has taken them over ten years, Kenya will have to rebuild its whole law afresh from scratch! A New Kenya
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