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Mjengo ianze! Penny-Stocker and other gurus, help!
Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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So after many years of toil and sweat, I've finally been blessed to scrape together a few decent plotis (a relatively prime 1/4 and a few 1/8ths in and around Nairoberry) with clean title in my name on which to start my mjengos. I could have started years back on the first plot but I figured that given the skyrocketing prices of properties in and around the big city, that would be putting the horse before the cart. Architect has designed the first mjengo for the 1/4 and we are about to ground break soon. He also wants to manage the project (to get his juicy contractor profit at my expense of course) but he doesn't know mjanja me will be getting my own foreman, sourcing my own materials, building in stages and joining in to soil my boots with koroga to save costs (thanks Penny-Stocker for those brilliant tips!). He has gone to great lengths to convince me that I need him to supervise at every stage, sourcing materials included (he's a good dreamer) but of course that will not be happening. My simple question is; at what stages (after approvals) do I really need this guy, assuming I have a good foreman? Can I cut him out completely after the approvals come in? Warm regards and thanks in advance.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Depends on the size of your project,if small,find an architect and structural engineer who is willing to be paid per visit rather than a full time architect and structural engineer. If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Swenani wrote:Depends on the size of your project,if small,find an architect and structural engineer who is willing to be paid per visit rather than a full time architect and structural engineer. Thanks Swenani, I will do exactly that. It's a small project (double story, single family home) that I intend to move the family into to begin with. Once I have some experience with this one, I will start focusing on bigger rental projects, God willing. I like the advice Penny-Stocker and others gave that the biggest step is just getting started. To all those with the same dream I say let us go for it. Time waits for no man (or woman.) Let's keep each other motivated, give each other ideas in true Wazua spirit and update each other on progress.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/27/2007 Posts: 2,768
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@mugundaman, if: 1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands, 2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used, 3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall, 4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings 5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone 6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building, 7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building, 8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. ...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Kigangio, I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture  but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,820 Location: Nakuru
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Forgime me if i sound ignorant etc...but i have been pondering about this over some time now.... I have a 50 by 80 plot in Eastern bypass near Ruiru. I intend to build a residential house(Maisonette) with 4 bedrooms( 2 of which will be all ensuite). I also intend to allocate parking for two cars. Someone mentioned i could build a 60 by 30 feet house. How much approximately will it cost to finish this house? Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,516 Location: nairobi
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Fyatu wrote:Forgime me if i sound ignorant etc...but i have been pondering about this over some time now....
I have a 50 by 80 plot in Eastern bypass near Ruiru. I intend to build a residential house(Maisonette) with 4 bedrooms( 2 of which will be all ensuite). I also intend to allocate parking for two cars. Someone mentioned i could build a 60 by 30 feet house. How much approximately will it cost to finish this house? That question is very broad.. Mainly depends on quality of finishing of the home.. It could cost you as little as 5m and as high as 15m or more
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/20/2011 Posts: 1,820 Location: Nakuru
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obiero wrote:Fyatu wrote:Forgime me if i sound ignorant etc...but i have been pondering about this over some time now....
I have a 50 by 80 plot in Eastern bypass near Ruiru. I intend to build a residential house(Maisonette) with 4 bedrooms( 2 of which will be all ensuite). I also intend to allocate parking for two cars. Someone mentioned i could build a 60 by 30 feet house. How much approximately will it cost to finish this house? That question is very broad.. Mainly depends on quality of finishing of the home.. It could cost you as little as 5m and as high as 15m or more I am thinking basic finishing..nothing fancy at all. A fundi in Githurai area told me i could do the skeleton(shutter included) for 1.5 million. Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Fyatu wrote:obiero wrote:Fyatu wrote:Forgime me if i sound ignorant etc...but i have been pondering about this over some time now....
I have a 50 by 80 plot in Eastern bypass near Ruiru. I intend to build a residential house(Maisonette) with 4 bedrooms( 2 of which will be all ensuite). I also intend to allocate parking for two cars. Someone mentioned i could build a 60 by 30 feet house. How much approximately will it cost to finish this house? That question is very broad.. Mainly depends on quality of finishing of the home.. It could cost you as little as 5m and as high as 15m or more I am thinking basic finishing..nothing fancy at all. A fundi in Githurai area told me i could do the skeleton(shutter included) for 1.5 million. For a bungalow that size, for just the "skele" he told you right  If wakina Penny-Stocker were building beautiful 2 story 4 flat units for 6-7m just a year or two ago, don't be conned that your bungalow should cost the same or more.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/7/2017 Posts: 186 Location: Nairobi
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Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Loll Well put
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,516 Location: nairobi
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MugundaMan wrote:Fyatu wrote:obiero wrote:Fyatu wrote:Forgime me if i sound ignorant etc...but i have been pondering about this over some time now....
I have a 50 by 80 plot in Eastern bypass near Ruiru. I intend to build a residential house(Maisonette) with 4 bedrooms( 2 of which will be all ensuite). I also intend to allocate parking for two cars. Someone mentioned i could build a 60 by 30 feet house. How much approximately will it cost to finish this house? That question is very broad.. Mainly depends on quality of finishing of the home.. It could cost you as little as 5m and as high as 15m or more I am thinking basic finishing..nothing fancy at all. A fundi in Githurai area told me i could do the skeleton(shutter included) for 1.5 million. For a bungalow that size, for just the "skele" he told you right If wakina Penny-Stocker were building beautiful 2 story 4 flat units for 6-7m just a year or two ago, don't be conned that your bungalow should cost the same or more. @fyatu the septic alone could take half of the 1.5m that your fundi bandies
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/8/2008 Posts: 288
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MugundaMan wrote:Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Kigangio, I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws. I agree its not rocket science. Some of us learnt about mjengos from this site through sharing of experiences by the like of Pablo and managed to supervise buildings up to occupation. The most important thing is willingness to learn and move on. The likes of Kirima and other Rwathia old men were not architects or engineers but they still managed.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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MugundaMan wrote:Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Kigangio, I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws. I would take @Kaigangio's more seriously. We all think ourselves wise, until we meet those who've encountered project owners like us, and have fine-tuned the art of dealing with us appropriately.  You are lucky if you have a professional willing to assist, whatever the motivation. Seeing as you have other projects, learn from him. Let that education come in handy in subsequent projects. I have also learnt alot doing koroga, but I do so with humility. Professionals are there for a reason.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/29/2011 Posts: 2,242
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MugundaMan wrote:Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Kigangio, I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws. @Mugundaman, Never underrate a professional, in whichever field. You may not have to engage them, but give respect. "Things that matter most must never be at the mercy of things that matter least." Goethe
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,516 Location: nairobi
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Gathige wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Kigangio, I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws. @Mugundaman, Never underrate a professional, in whichever field. You may not have to engage them, but give respect. True. These guys chop the money but they are professionals
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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Gathige wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Kigangio, I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws. @Mugundaman, Never underrate a professional, in whichever field. You may not have to engage them, but give respect. Not all constructions projects require a full time architect and structural engineer on site. A pay rate per visit is more convenient for small projects than having a full time architect and structural engineer on site. Aacheni maringo na kujibeba If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,516 Location: nairobi
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Swenani wrote:Gathige wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Kigangio, I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws. @Mugundaman, Never underrate a professional, in whichever field. You may not have to engage them, but give respect. Not all constructions projects require a full time architect and structural engineer on site. A pay rate per visit is more convenient for small projects than having a full time architect and structural engineer on site. Aacheni maringo na kujibeba The difference between a stable building and one prone to collapses may be a few bags of cement and a couple of ill tied columns
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,211 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Jitahidi wrote:
I agree its not rocket science. Some of us learnt about mjengos from this site through sharing of experiences by the like of Pablo and managed to supervise buildings up to occupation. The most important thing is willingness to learn and move on. The likes of Kirima and other Rwathia old men were not architects or engineers but they still managed.
Indeed brother. Of course the "professionals" do not want this information getting out, because it takes lots of juicy goat meat that they have been used to for a very long time off their high tables. That's why they respond with what they believe to be "technical jargon" to try to 'stusha' others from going it alone . I am inspired by people like you and kina Penny-pincher, Pablo etc, who have got these things done and kept the contractor's profits in their pockets for themselves for further development. You are right about the Kirimas. There is a reason why they owned big chunks of Nairobi while the "professionals" with mingi degrees are still stuck in an office from 9 am to 5pm fleecing ordinary Joes with overinflated fees.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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obiero wrote:Swenani wrote:Gathige wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Kigangio, I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws. @Mugundaman, Never underrate a professional, in whichever field. You may not have to engage them, but give respect. Not all constructions projects require a full time architect and structural engineer on site. A pay rate per visit is more convenient for small projects than having a full time architect and structural engineer on site. Aacheni maringo na kujibeba The difference between a stable building and one prone to collapses may be a few bags of cement and a couple of ill tied columns I have seen reinforcement being brought down on recommendation of a structural engineer hired per visit. They come assess any reinforcement before any koroga is done. My point is that not all buildings require a full time architect and structural engineer.Whether you accept it or not, this is the reality, many small scale developers and households don't have these professionals full time, they are paid per visit.Which is reasonable and acceptable to me but that's my personal view If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,516 Location: nairobi
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Swenani wrote:obiero wrote:Swenani wrote:Gathige wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Kaigangio wrote:@mugundaman, if:
1. you cannot tell the difference between white, brown or grey sands,
2. you cannot tell the difference between course and fine sand and in which parts of the building they are suitable to be used,
3. you cannot tell the difference between a masonry and RC wall,
4. you cannot decode the information from the structural engineers designs/drawings
5. you cannot tell the difference between the upper and lower strata natural stone
6. you cannot tell the difference between Ceramic, Granite, Travertine, Porcelain, Pebble and Stone Tile and where they are used within the building,
7. you cannot tell the difference between the various types of paints and where they are applied within the building,
8. you cannot tell the different types of MDFs and block boards in the market
then your presence at the construction site will add no value at all to the execution and the quality of the works and you might just end up with a more expensive project than you would have had when the professionals that you are trying to avoid were on board. Kigangio, I know we are eating your goat by cutting you guys out of the picture but the things above are not rocket science, brother. I saw a brilliant thread by kina pablo a few years ago that I have saved to donate to my future grandkids as one of the most valuable threads on cyberspace. It shed clean, dazzling light on the massive conmanship being pulled on the average Joe by the so called "professionals" in the mjengo industry. Sorry but I will not part with even a glittering ndururu more for my project than necessary by hiring those vultures beyond the absolute minimum possible that is necessary by our good laws. @Mugundaman, Never underrate a professional, in whichever field. You may not have to engage them, but give respect. Not all constructions projects require a full time architect and structural engineer on site. A pay rate per visit is more convenient for small projects than having a full time architect and structural engineer on site. Aacheni maringo na kujibeba The difference between a stable building and one prone to collapses may be a few bags of cement and a couple of ill tied columns I have seen reinforcement being brought down on recommendation of a structural engineer hired per visit. They come assess any reinforcement before any koroga is done. My point is that not all buildings require a full time architect and structural engineer.Whether you accept it or not, this is the reality, many small scale developers and households don't have these professionals full time, they are paid per visit.Which is reasonable and acceptable to me but that's my personal view I don’t think we are saying different things. What I am against is the one who said professionals mean nothing! @mugundaman to be precise
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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