What are they for? What value do they add in someone's life? They are expensive, messy, loud, big responsibilities and really don't make anything better in someone's life in my opinion. And did I mention that they are really expensive?

I have friends who have two or three kids and they all owe me money in the hundreds of thousands because at one point or another, they needed a soft loan for fees or medical expenses etc for the kids. Question. If you know that something is going to pull you back financially, then why are you still doing it? One of my friend has a really good job but has four kids and a stay at home wife. This guy is always BROKE on the 5th of the month after paying bills.

I can't even have lunch at a decent restaurant with him because he is always complaining "vile kumekauka". I have given him so much money that I've forgotten exactly how much he owes me. If this guy didn't have kids he would have so much money at his disposal and would never be stressed out the way he usually is. Everytime I see him he is always absent minded thinking about fees and rent and food and it makes me sad.

This past January I couldn't get most of my friends with kids to even meet over a 200 shillings coffee at Java because they were all complaining how broke they were. Hata mia mbili Hakuna.

I don't have any kids and my fiance and I make good incomes so combined we live very comfortably. We can take an impromptu trip at the drop of a hat to nice vacation spots and we generally enjoy life. We dine out and spend evenings at nice places without having to worry if our kids have been picked up from school or eaten supper. We eat life with a big spoon and enjoy every single day because we don't have the stress that my friends with kids all have.

One of them is on the verge of being thrown out of his house because he had to choose between school fees for three kids and rent in January.

They all tell me how lucky I am to be able to travel whenever I want and to be able to dine at good restaurants and buy nice stuff. Then they still go ahead and have more kids after that. Lol.

So, somebody tell me, what's the point of having kids again?

Humbaglar, I think you have your argument all wrong. That's the problem when you think "you" are the center of the universe.

Your thesis is that people with kids are not happy because they don't eat juicy steak with 200 bob java.

I think you should conduct an experiment.

Ask your poor matumbo eating friends if they would like to exchange their kids for the juicy steak.

Only then can you find out exactly how much they envy your life. Or are they laughing at you.

Simple and logical case study. Sio domo domo tu.

If they enjoyed their lives so much they would not be broke and stressed out and borrowing money as much as they do. I would never trade my life for that stress ever. If being broke and calling me at midnight to ask me for a soft loan for fees is their version of happiness then they can laugh at me all they want while I sleep soundly stress free.

And it just seems like all of my friends with kids are struggling. Even the ones who make good incomes. Is that struggling everyday to pay school fees just so you can say you have kids your idea of happiness?

Am fine being kidless and having a good night sleep without fees and diaper worries keeping me up late at night. Society has really brainwashed some people. A lot of folks want to please society by having kids because in their minds, having kids is some sort of esteemed social status. Why conform to society in public, act all happy around people when deep down you know very well you can't really afford to raise those kids that you are showing off?

I don't dispute these people do love their kids, but at what expense? One of them is so relieved his daughter finished high school now he wants to send her to Australia. You can feel the sense of relief in his voice because he says that he is done paying school fees for her and he can now save some money. It's almost a case of good riddance once his daughter goes to Australia. You call that happiness?

No Humbaglar, you are not going to take us that route.

We are not here to make you happy or sad about your life choices. Neither are we here to convince you or otherwise that your choices have meaning.

Hiyo sio kazi yetu....That's your's and your fiances problem.

The only thing I would invite wazuas to do is either make fun of you or make fun of your fiance.

Lakini going into the pros and cons of kids....apana.

I have asked you to do a simple experiment. Maybe you are a coward. I don't know....Are you chicken?

1.Call your matumbo friends

2. Ask them to give up their kids for your money

Then you shall know exactly how sad they are...Hii ingine ya arguments can be done on Friday evening over a beer..

Sio Monday work day.

We are not going to be your sounding board over an argument with your fiance. Kwanza that girl must be very depressed right now...

Patia yeye toto...Washa madharau.

My friend rephrases the question.

Are you capable of fathering children?

For example, if a rich woman asked you to donate sperms through coitus, would you be capable of rising to the occasion?

He will interrupt the coitus before its even done!

Interesting thread, interesting issues.

I think society needs to review the understanding of the concept of Family Planning. That it's more than just contraception and also involves planning for the number of kids one can afford to have bearing in mind the quality of life they desire for themselves and their kids.

hamburglar wrote:

Much Know wrote:

hamburglar wrote:

Much Know wrote:

hamburglar wrote:

who loves them

What is love ?

Is that a serious question?

Yes it is a serious question, i thought atheist depend on somee 'logic' to run their affairs not abstract notions like "love" which cannot be proven. You say there is no "faith", yet there is "love", whats the difference, thought these come from the "soul". In this regard i think you mean 'eros love', or "romantic love", what is it? how can you prove you 'know' love? Psychos don't know love, they are cold, some say the same of atheist, they are cold unfeeling and anti-social, think lenin, pol pot, stalin, e.t.c, cold blooded thinkers and murderers who depend on "logic", this is why i want you to explain about love, does it come from the brain?

Nonsense

The answer @hamburglar, lies in this question that was avoided: What is love?

Your posts show commendable wisdom on your part on the first 3 steps of love - destiny may see you conquer the last two, who knows?

@hamburger

Life is not all about money.

Going to Java and trips is nothing

Kids don't come with brokeness. They bring along blessings as they themselves are blessings and Gifts.

Lack of money,by your colleagues, is due to their bad decisions.

If you don't like to get kids, its your decision stick with it. Dont let anyone force you to.

However from your post, you seem to have some angerness,you think your friends are broke because of kids. You have some resentment,probably caused by your inability to do something.