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Zombies on the NSE - 2016
VituVingiSana
#1 Posted : Tuesday, June 07, 2016 10:14:59 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,224
Location: Nairobi
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html

Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
MadDoc
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 7:47:28 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/26/2015
Posts: 151
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Kurwitu itakuwa?Laughing out loudly
Plimsoul
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 8:34:15 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/3/2016
Posts: 132
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.
VituVingiSana
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 8:48:11 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,224
Location: Nairobi
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

CMA. Headed by the son of Britam's chairman. Britam can do what it wants. Perhaps even Equity.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Plimsoul
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:01:16 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/3/2016
Posts: 132
VituVingiSana wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

CMA. Headed by the son of Britam's chairman. Britam can do what it wants. Perhaps even Equity.


I would imagine that it's in the interest of everyone in the long term, especially of large shareholders of listed companies, to have investors believe in the integrity of the capital markets.

Short term thinking, non-shareholder CEOs pursuing selfish goals to the long term detriment of the entire market should worry Britam and Equity shareholders more than anyone. No?


MaichBlack
#6 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:23:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,570
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Plimsoul
#7 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:27:28 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/3/2016
Posts: 132
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!


So the information memorandum meant for the public, allowed by the regulator, is found to be fraudulent, and we blame the victims?
Spikes
#8 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:33:20 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
VituVingiSana wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

CMA. Headed by the son of Britam's chairman. Britam can do what it wants. Perhaps even Equity.



I can confirm without fear or contradiction Britam and Equity are time bombs! Time will tell!
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
MaichBlack
#9 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:34:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,570
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!


So the information memorandum meant for the public, allowed by the regulator, is found to be fraudulent, and we blame the victims?

Both!!!

You are a Wazuan. You've seen how they dig for information before putting their money anywhere. And we are talking about people with far much less resources than Jamii Bora and investing much much less.

The regulator should ensure that all the information is factual. Do they ever??? The investor should do due diligence before putting money anywhere. Wazuans do. Other Kenyans do. Why would Jamii Bora simply read a document on the way to become the main shareholder??? Stupid!!!

We even interrogate published results here. You don't have to be a genius to know there a is a lot of "creative accounting" and misinformation in the business world!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Ericsson
#10 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:38:26 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 10,778
Location: NAIROBI
The CEO is shifting blame elsewhere for the investment in uchumi.
If it was in other countries he should have resigned asap
Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
MaichBlack
#11 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:39:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,570
@Spikes - Equity Bank is a ticking time bomb??? Care to explain??? Facts only!!! Not the usual rumours that have claimed Equity Bank is collapsing for the last 10 years.

Over to you!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Ebenyo
#12 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:40:53 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2016
Posts: 1,997
Location: Kitale
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!


So the information memorandum meant for the public, allowed by the regulator, is found to be fraudulent, and we blame the victims?

So should we blame the regulator? when a company releases its fy report which contains other disclosures,thats the report we relie to make decisions as investors.Now tell me,how else will know anything else concerning the company beyond FY reports?
Towards the goal of financial freedom
Spikes
#13 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:46:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
Ebenyo wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!


So the information memorandum meant for the public, allowed by the regulator, is found to be fraudulent, and we blame the victims?

So should we blame the regulator? when a company releases its fy report which contains other disclosures,thats the report we relie to make decisions as investors.Now tell me,how else will know anything else concerning the company beyond FY reports?



The blame is on the regulator though the investor must exercise due diligence.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
Plimsoul
#14 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:47:57 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/3/2016
Posts: 132
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!


So the information memorandum meant for the public, allowed by the regulator, is found to be fraudulent, and we blame the victims?

Both!!!

You are a Wazuan. You've seen how they dig for information before putting their money anywhere. And we are talking about people with far much less resources than Jamii Bora and investing much much less.

The regulator should ensure that all the information is factual. Do they ever??? The investor should do due diligence before putting money anywhere. Wazuans do. Other Kenyans do. Why would Jamii Bora simply read a document on the way to become the main shareholder??? Stupid!!!

We even interrogate published results here. You don't have to be a genius to know there a is a lot of "creative accounting" and misinformation in the business world!!!


This is a public listed company being bought through the exchange. We should all have access to the same information, big and small investors alike.

Even Warren Buffett makes massive investments simply from reading the publicly available annual reports. That's as it should be.

And this isn't "creative accounting", he says they were conned, duped, that the IM was fiction. We all relied on the IM that was prepared by management, numbers unqualified by the auditors, approved by the regulator, put together by the investment bank and presented to the public. How can we blame the people who relied on this document to make investment decisions?
MaichBlack
#15 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 9:54:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,570
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!


So the information memorandum meant for the public, allowed by the regulator, is found to be fraudulent, and we blame the victims?

Both!!!

You are a Wazuan. You've seen how they dig for information before putting their money anywhere. And we are talking about people with far much less resources than Jamii Bora and investing much much less.

The regulator should ensure that all the information is factual. Do they ever??? The investor should do due diligence before putting money anywhere. Wazuans do. Other Kenyans do. Why would Jamii Bora simply read a document on the way to become the main shareholder??? Stupid!!!

We even interrogate published results here. You don't have to be a genius to know there a is a lot of "creative accounting" and misinformation in the business world!!!


This is a public listed company being bought through the exchange. We should all have access to the same information, big and small investors alike.

Even Warren Buffett makes massive investments simply from reading the publicly available annual reports. That's as it should be.

And this isn't "creative accounting", he says they were conned, duped, that the IM was fiction. We all relied on the IM that was prepared by management, numbers unqualified by the auditors, approved by the regulator, put together by the investment bank and presented to the public. How can we blame the people who relied on this document to make investment decisions?

Creative accounting is easy to unearth. If they did their due diligence, they would have unearthed that info and much more.

What did you just say about Warren Buffet??? Let me not even respond to that!!! I will let @vvs school you on Warren Buffet's modus operandi!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Spikes
#16 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 10:14:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/20/2015
Posts: 2,811
Location: Mombasa
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!


So the information memorandum meant for the public, allowed by the regulator, is found to be fraudulent, and we blame the victims?

Both!!!

You are a Wazuan. You've seen how they dig for information before putting their money anywhere. And we are talking about people with far much less resources than Jamii Bora and investing much much less.

The regulator should ensure that all the information is factual. Do they ever??? The investor should do due diligence before putting money anywhere. Wazuans do. Other Kenyans do. Why would Jamii Bora simply read a document on the way to become the main shareholder??? Stupid!!!

We even interrogate published results here. You don't have to be a genius to know there a is a lot of "creative accounting" and misinformation in the business world!!!


This is a public listed company being bought through the exchange. We should all have access to the same information, big and small investors alike.

Even Warren Buffett makes massive investments simply from reading the publicly available annual reports. That's as it should be.

And this isn't "creative accounting", he says they were conned, duped, that the IM was fiction. We all relied on the IM that was prepared by management, numbers unqualified by the auditors, approved by the regulator, put together by the investment bank and presented to the public. How can we blame the people who relied on this document to make investment decisions?

Creative accounting is easy to unearth. If they did their due diligence, they would have unearthed that info and much more.

What did you just say about Warren Buffet??? Let me not even respond to that!!! I will let @vvs school you on Warren Buffet's modus operandi!



Warren Buffet is a mascot to the advocates of his school of thought.

A bunch of guys in Wazua have ascribed their skills to Warren Buffet.
John 5:17 But Jesus replied, “My Father is always working, and so am I.”
Emerger
#17 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 10:23:35 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/1/2014
Posts: 45
Location: Nairobi
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
MaichBlack wrote:
Plimsoul wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
A Zombie firm is one that is as good as dead but for some reason it is still 'alive' but flailing.

Examples:

Kenya Airways: Negative Equity, begging for loans everywhere, looking for bailouts and Scams Inc is in charge.

Uchumi: A major shareholder says it was conned. Stores closing, suppliers not supplying goods, customers avoiding the stores and there was Scam Inc in charge.
http://www.businessdaily...-/15d0iooz/-/index.html

NBK: It cannot grow, Scam Inc remains in charge, poor loan quality, etc.

Others include:

ADSS, Eveready, Sameer.

Sameer: Merali. 'Nuff said. Even the Chinese don't want to deal with him! http://www.businessdaily.../-/12khyle/-/index.html



Uchumi story is quite something.
“As a listed company, we got the transaction approved by all regulators but the information memorandum was a work of fiction, it did not reflect what we found there,” said Mr Kimani yesterday at the bank’s annual general meeting.

“We feel cheated because unlike a private company where you do due diligence, a listed company you depend on the information memorandum provided.”


That captures our problems as investors perfectly. Hopefully, now that he chairs the NSE board, he can help drive listed company disclosures and protect us.

I felt this was stupid and careless!!

How do you put half a billion into an investment without doing due diligence because there is an "information memorandum"???

Jamii bora has resources, manpower, networks and know how to conduct due diligence!!! This is total upus, and the excuse should get jamii bora shareholders very worried!! Anyone who puts half a billion of your money into a company in (total) distress without doing due diligence should be shown the door by yesterday!


So the information memorandum meant for the public, allowed by the regulator, is found to be fraudulent, and we blame the victims?

Both!!!

You are a Wazuan. You've seen how they dig for information before putting their money anywhere. And we are talking about people with far much less resources than Jamii Bora and investing much much less.

The regulator should ensure that all the information is factual. Do they ever??? The investor should do due diligence before putting money anywhere. Wazuans do. Other Kenyans do. Why would Jamii Bora simply read a document on the way to become the main shareholder??? Stupid!!!

We even interrogate published results here. You don't have to be a genius to know there a is a lot of "creative accounting" and misinformation in the business world!!!


This is a public listed company being bought through the exchange. We should all have access to the same information, big and small investors alike.

Even Warren Buffett makes massive investments simply from reading the publicly available annual reports. That's as it should be.

And this isn't "creative accounting", he says they were conned, duped, that the IM was fiction. We all relied on the IM that was prepared by management, numbers unqualified by the auditors, approved by the regulator, put together by the investment bank and presented to the public. How can we blame the people who relied on this document to make investment decisions?



Creative accounting is there unless one closes his/her eyes on the past and information in the public. Case in point in the banking sector.
Nevertheless, an investor ought not to pass a blame on information reliance, due diligence is an unwritten rule thus inevitable for every investor.
Taking a risk necessitates a thorough review of the target company from whichever source, IM is just one source, financial reports and performance trends of the company.
Lessons should be learnt and now the 'duped' investor will head and take the NSE to the next level
Plimsoul
#18 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 10:28:29 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/3/2016
Posts: 132
@MaichBlack
"Does Warren Buffett visit companies or talk to management?

When asked this question during the Annual Meeting of Berkshire Hathaway in 2003, he replied,

“About 40 or 50 years ago, I did a lot of talking to managements. I used to go out and take a trip every now and then and drop in on maybe 15 or 20 companies. I haven’t done that for a long, long time. Today, everything we do, pretty much, I find through public documents.

I try to understand the business and not have any preconceived notions. There is adequate information out there to evaluate a great many businesses.

We do not find it particularly helpful to talk to managements. Managements frequently want to come to Omaha. And they usually have a variety of reasons why they say they want to talk to me. But what they’re really hoping is that we get interested in their stock. And that never works.

The managements are not the best reporting parties in most cases. The figures tell us more than management. So we do not spend any real amount of time talking to management. Before we buy a business, we look at the record to determine what the management’s like."

http://knowledge.conscio...r+talk+to+management%3F

This is not to say he would have invested in Uchumi. Just defending the use of public records.
MaichBlack
#19 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 10:37:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,570
"You should buy companies that are good enough so somebody with Alzheimer's can run them." Warren Buffet.

Based on a true story....

One time a Berkshire company was run by an executive whom Warren Buffet and Charlie Munger really liked but saw infrequently. It turned out that the executive had developed Alzheimer's but had been able to hide it for a few years before Buffet figured it out and replaced him.
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Ebenyo
#20 Posted : Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:23:53 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/4/2016
Posts: 1,997
Location: Kitale
Plimsoul wrote:
@MaichBlack
"Does Warren Buffett visit companies or talk to management?

When asked this question during the Annual Meeting of Berkshire Hathaway in 2003, he replied,

“About 40 or 50 years ago, I did a lot of talking to managements. I used to go out and take a trip every now and then and drop in on maybe 15 or 20 companies. I haven’t done that for a long, long time. Today, everything we do, pretty much, I find through public documents.

I try to understand the business and not have any preconceived notions. There is adequate information out there to evaluate a great many businesses.

We do not find it particularly helpful to talk to managements. Managements frequently want to come to Omaha. And they usually have a variety of reasons why they say they want to talk to me. But what they’re really hoping is that we get interested in their stock. And that never works.

The managements are not the best reporting parties in most cases. The figures tell us more than management. So we do not spend any real amount of time talking to management. Before we buy a business, we look at the record to determine what the management’s like."

http://knowledge.conscio...r+talk+to+management%3F

This is not to say he would have invested in Uchumi. Just defending the use of public records.

Now going by the master himself,what are the companies in the NSE currently that Warren Buffet could invest?
Towards the goal of financial freedom
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