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Why Burn Ksh. 20B Worth of Ivory?
Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/12/2016 Posts: 19
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Ivory dealers must be smilling, this will only push the price and demand for ivory higher
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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joga bonito wrote:Ivory dealers must be smilling, this will only push the price and demand for ivory higher How? So if they are not burn't, the prices will come down? or what are your trying to say? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/12/2016 Posts: 19
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Swenani wrote:joga bonito wrote:Ivory dealers must be smilling, this will only push the price and demand for ivory higher How? So if they are not burn't, the prices will come down? or what are your trying to say? just saying they could sell them off then use the funds to upgrade conservation of our parks. Just burning alone won't change anything, 10 yrs to come we shall burn more ivories
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/28/2015 Posts: 9,562 Location: Rodi Kopany, Homa Bay
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The point is that you burn 20B of ivory and get 40B in return from the international community for conservation. And your name and reputation goes up for saving the planet.
Conversely, if you sell, you earn only 20B and go into the bad books of the international community as one who is encouraging ivory trade and extinction of species.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2012 Posts: 1,317
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A court ruled in SA that private conservancies have the right to sell their ivory and use proceeds to fund conservation.
SA govt stopped it pending appeal.
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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masukuma wrote:I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked! How do we handle corruption using counter intuitive? Have everyone giving and taking bribes or legalize and tax it? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/14/2007 Posts: 4,152
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joga bonito wrote:Swenani wrote:joga bonito wrote:Ivory dealers must be smilling, this will only push the price and demand for ivory higher How? So if they are not burn't, the prices will come down? or what are your trying to say? just saying they could sell them off then use the funds to upgrade conservation of our parks. Just burning alone won't change anything, 10 yrs to come we shall burn more ivories The national and international trade in ivory of threatened species such as African elephants is illegal so where would the govt sell the Ivory, black market???
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/4/2015 Posts: 241 Location: Kahno
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34313745
The burning is normally recycled probably with a few fresh ones.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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I support the burn! i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2015 Posts: 682
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masukuma wrote:I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked! The amount of training, time and risk it takes to properly tranquilize and remove an elephant/rhino tusk is so high. That's why people opt to simply kill the beasts.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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hardwood wrote:The point is that you burn 20B of ivory and get 40B in return from the international community for conservation. And your name and reputation goes up for saving the planet.
Conversely, if you sell, you earn only 20B and go into the bad books of the international community as one who is encouraging ivory trade and extinction of species.  For once in my Wazua life I read something from you that I agree with. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:hardwood wrote:The point is that you burn 20B of ivory and get 40B in return from the international community for conservation. And your name and reputation goes up for saving the planet.
Conversely, if you sell, you earn only 20B and go into the bad books of the international community as one who is encouraging ivory trade and extinction of species. For once in my Wazua life I read something from you that I agree with. Ame copy&paste word-for-word from a Nationmedia blog discussing the same story,from an anonymous handle. Very cheap Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,821 Location: Nairobi
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Mike Ock wrote:masukuma wrote:I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked! The amount of training, time and risk it takes to properly tranquilize and remove an elephant/rhino tusk is so high. That's why people opt to simply kill the beasts. I am talking about "the war against [INSERT ILLEGAL THING HERE]" always creates more rich people around the illegal stuff coz the people who can master distribution rake in the cash. It happened with prostitution, alcohol and even drugs. On Elephant Extinction (maybe this should be a post on it's own)... I have a very controversial position... it will seem sacrilegious to many people! I have always asked.... So Elephants get extinct... SO? Try and perceive a future without elephants.... what's is wrong with that future? So our kids don't see elephants - how many kids actually see elephants? So? I look back and I read stories of the Marsupial Tiger ! a recent extinction... do we cry about it? We should do conservation not for humans but rather for the species themselves. The reason we have game parks is not for tourism but rather for animals to live their lives there in the same way we live ours. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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Impunity wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:hardwood wrote:The point is that you burn 20B of ivory and get 40B in return from the international community for conservation. And your name and reputation goes up for saving the planet.
Conversely, if you sell, you earn only 20B and go into the bad books of the international community as one who is encouraging ivory trade and extinction of species. For once in my Wazua life I read something from you that I agree with. Ame copy&paste word-for-word from a Nationmedia blog discussing the same story,from an anonymous handle. Very cheap Maybe he is the Anonymous!! i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/22/2009 Posts: 2,449 Location: Africa
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I hope nobody pulls a Kabogo during the burning
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/27/2012 Posts: 851 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked! @Masukuma, Totally agree on the ivory part. If we are doing all this for the elephant, then selling the ivory hence flooding the market for the next couple of years would lower demand of "fresh ivory". That would boast the elephant population significantly. The money from the ivory sale can be used for conservation efforts. Getting more cash than ivory sale just because we'll appear to be purists in conservation, betrays our intent. Doing it for our name[tourism] rather than the elephant. On drugs, i don't think flooding the market is the solution. Unlike ivory, where protecting the product [read elephant] is the objective, with drugs, you are trying to protect the user/consumer. Killing the drug trade/trader is not the main objective.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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mkeiy wrote:masukuma wrote:I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked! @Masukuma, Totally agree on the ivory part. If we are doing all this for the elephant, then selling the ivory hence flooding the market for the next couple of years would lower demand of "fresh ivory". That would boast the elephant population significantly. The money from the ivory sale can be used for conservation efforts. Getting more cash than ivory sale just because we'll appear to be purists in conservation, betrays our intent. Doing it for our name[tourism] rather than the elephant. On drugs, i don't think flooding the market is the solution. Unlike ivory, where protecting the product [read elephant] is the objective, with drugs, you are trying to protect the user/consumer. Killing the drug trade/trader is not the main objective. I saw this proposition from X.N Iraki of flooding market with Ivory,I do not think it's tenable solution. Will we be able to flood the market with ivory every year? What if the volume of demand increases? An elephant carries a baby for 2 years and then takes care of it for another 4 years. How many elephants do we have in kenya? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,549 Location: nairobi
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Swenani wrote:masukuma wrote:I think we are at place in our existence where we are faced by counter intuitive evidence. In the US drug war has driven up drug prices and made the people with "distribution channels" rich! In europe - taking a different path to make sure that they even provide the drugs to addicts (clean syringes and all) has made it possible to almost kill the drug trade. It's counter intuitive!! Perhaps if We would collect all the ivory and then dump them in the market in China we would kill the trade. Coz its happening because someone has created an optimised distribution channel. I am unaware of a substance/product that has been killed by banning it. History has shown us that banning just creates other channels. the US had banned phombe for quite sometime - it never worked! How do we handle corruption using counter intuitive? Have everyone giving and taking bribes or legalize and tax it? This Problem is caused by unreasonable fees for offences. Drunk driving should be costly but why charge 5k for obstruction or 20k for over speeding at 65km/h!!!!!!!!
HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Why Burn Ksh. 20B Worth of Ivory?
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