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'Brave new world' - conversation on postmodern cosmology.
tycho
#1 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 2:36:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@ChessMaster, I have come.
@Wakanyugi, can you please pose your question again?

@All, you are most welcome!
bigbossman
#2 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 2:38:28 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/14/2012
Posts: 201
Location: nairobi
What is all this about?
LIFE IS SO GOOD
tycho
#3 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 2:48:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
This is a conversation about how one can live well.

Living well, I posit, comprises of 3 pillars: Science, mutuallism, and identity.

Finally, it is an inquiry into our ideas about the origins, and purpose of the universe.
ChessMaster
#4 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 2:49:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Ah,finally.Where do you wanna start?
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#5 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 2:52:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
ChessMaster wrote:
Ah,finally.Where do you wanna start?


'Game' is on!
ChessMaster
#6 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 2:57:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
I saw a talk by nassim harrim,and he said that the everything from suns,planets and atoms are black holes in the center.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#7 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 3:15:29 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
ChessMaster wrote:
I saw a talk by nassim harrim,and he said that the everything from suns,planets and atoms are black holes in the center.


Yes. I perceive so too! Why, are you surprised?
Wakanyugi
#8 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 3:17:20 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:

@Wakanyugi, can you please pause your question again?


@Tycho: I want proof that time and space exist.

And I want it here and now! smile
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
ChessMaster
#9 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 3:24:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
I saw a talk by nassim harrim,and he said that the everything from suns,planets and atoms are black holes in the center.


Yes. I perceive so too! Why, are you surprised?


Very surprised.He was saying how much he's been rejected by physicists but in fact black holes do actually have the gravitational pull to hold matter as it exists. I like black holes any insights on what you think they are. The fact that it is more powerful than light and light is what we think of as ultimate intrigues me.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#10 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 3:37:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:

@Wakanyugi, can you please pause your question again?


@Tycho: I want proof that time and space exist.

And I want it here and now! smile


Energy is an indirectly perceived quantity in many forms.

Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore there cannot be 'no energy'.

Therefore, all is energy.

Spacetime is an indirectly observed quantity, for it 'expands'.

Therefore, spacetime is a form of energy.

Therefore it exists.
tycho
#11 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 3:40:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
I saw a talk by nassim harrim,and he said that the everything from suns,planets and atoms are black holes in the center.


Yes. I perceive so too! Why, are you surprised?


Very surprised.He was saying how much he's been rejected by physicists but in fact black holes do actually have the gravitational pull to hold matter as it exists. I like black holes any insights on what you think they are. The fact that it is more powerful than light and light is what we think of as ultimate intrigues me.


The rejection is surprising. Why is he being rejected?
ChessMaster
#12 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 4:04:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
I saw a talk by nassim harrim,and he said that the everything from suns,planets and atoms are black holes in the center.


Yes. I perceive so too! Why, are you surprised?


Very surprised.He was saying how much he's been rejected by physicists but in fact black holes do actually have the gravitational pull to hold matter as it exists. I like black holes any insights on what you think they are. The fact that it is more powerful than light and light is what we think of as ultimate intrigues me.


The rejection is surprising. Why is he being rejected?


He claimed that the big bang was a massive black hole that had accumulated matter. It reached a point and exploded spreading itself and the matter together throughout the universe.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#13 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 4:40:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
I saw a talk by nassim harrim,and he said that the everything from suns,planets and atoms are black holes in the center.


Yes. I perceive so too! Why, are you surprised?


Very surprised.He was saying how much he's been rejected by physicists but in fact black holes do actually have the gravitational pull to hold matter as it exists. I like black holes any insights on what you think they are. The fact that it is more powerful than light and light is what we think of as ultimate intrigues me.


The rejection is surprising. Why is he being rejected?


He claimed that the big bang was a massive black hole that had accumulated matter. It reached a point and exploded spreading itself and the matter together throughout the universe.


Since energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it must hold itself together.

For example, Gravitation is one expression of energy holding itself together. That is, being.

If there is being, then there must be an indestructible 'core' that can expand, only up to where the forces holding being together have grown weak enough to warrant the creation of new energy systems.

That is, being creates new systems to facilitate being.

Now, the essence of being, can only be in a black hole.

Consider the esoteric meaning of black: does it ring a bell?
simonkabz
#14 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 10:26:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Laughing out loudly Mbona watu wana avoid hii area?
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
josiah33
#15 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 10:33:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
Hii area utafloat mbaya- ati love ni gravityLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Wakanyugi
#16 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 10:59:03 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
@Tycho, Tycho Tycho!

Where do I start my brother?

tycho wrote:
Spacetime is an indirectly observed quantity, for it 'expands'.


Does it? Or does spacetime only seem to expand?

Is it not Einstein who told us that time is relative? Space is a function of time, therefore it must be relative too. You agree?

How can something relative (meaning subject to the state of the observer) be a definite reality?

After all if spacetime is/are subject to the observer, it means there are as many spacetimes as there are observers.

tycho wrote:
Therefore, all is energy.


Does that include time and space - are these energy too? So does this mean energy is a malleable quantity subject to change as spacetime is/are?

Anyway I know you are fed up with my incessant questions. So here is what I'll do. Sometime tomorrow - or the day after - I'll provide my counter proof (space and time are not real) and we can take it from there.

Deal?


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#17 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 11:15:15 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
.

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#18 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 11:17:47 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
Wakanyugi wrote:
[quote=tycho]
He claimed that the big bang was a massive black hole that had accumulated matter. It reached a point and exploded spreading itself and the matter together throughout the universe.

Gravitation is one expression of energy holding itself together. That is, being.

If there is being, then there must be an indestructible 'core' that can expand, only up to where the forces holding being together have grown weak enough to warrant the creation of new energy systems.

That is, being creates new systems to facilitate being.

Now, the essence of being, can only be in a black hole.


@Tycho and Chessmaster.

I can't claim to understand what you guys are talking about here. By I must tell you, my 'Bravo Sierra' antennae is ringing like mad.

So I have to comment.

Let us start from the assumption that Einstein was right (he could have been wrong, but I am still waiting for proof).

I believe Einstein proved, in his theory of gravitation, that gravity is nothing but the effect of the curvature of space-time in the presence of large masses. In other words Gravity exists only in the same way that a shadow exists when the sun shines.

Now, a black hole is nothing but such space-time curvature taken to the ultimate - from a curve to a full circle - from linear time to zero time.

By this explanation a black hole is actually not a hole but a closed sphere, a singularity, from which very little or nothing can escape.

So what is all this about being and how it creates new systems? Which systems?




"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#19 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 11:33:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Wakanyugi, 'Deal'. But pass by to get answers to the questions you have asked so far. Tomorrow morning.

tycho
#20 Posted : Sunday, February 10, 2013 6:37:37 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Wakanyugi, let us start by defining 'perception', and 'relativity'.

Perception, is about identifying, and organization of sensory information. It must involve energy transactions which involve the distal object and the perceiver.

That is, perception must involve the correspondence of energy states between the perceiver and the perceived. This, is the meaning of 'relativity'.

Perception, therefore means, a correspondence of relative energy states or levels. Such correspondence is proof of existence of both the perceiver, and perceived.

Therefore, we begin by affirming Descartes: 'I perceive, therefore, I am, and it is'. An observation in the subject becomes real by the correspondence of energy relations - Leibniz.

So if Einstein affirms relativity, then he affirms that spacetime is a part of existing energy relations. Otherwise, spacetime couldn't be perceived.

Therefore spacetime is an energy state in itself. That is why, it can curve.

In the same way, the perception that it expands, becomes a fact that it indeed expands!

So, yes, spacetime is energy. And it appears 'malleable' due to changes in relativity.

Now, if perception is about the relativity of energy states, it follows that being, is a system of energy relations.

When energy relations are changed, that is when an energy system is altered, there must be created a new system of being that corresponds to the new energy states because energy cannot be destroyed.

So, a black hole, is the basic energy system for any instance of energy relations.
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