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The poor logic behind interest rate rise..
pops
#1 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 2:31:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/13/2006
Posts: 123
well once again we are the victim of plain stupid economics. why were our interest rates increased? to regin in inflation via strengthening the kshs. what has been the effect? the kshs vs the usd had come down to 93 but prices are rising, as importers still have to face the brunt of paying 25% interest rates to finance their imports, as the recent example of the rise in fuel prices indicates. so where was the damn need to increase rates mr uhuru and ndungu? we could have kept the dollar at 100 so atleast our exports would have benefited, without hurting the masses of sme and mortgage borrowers. the cost of the government borrowing at 25% also means that we will be paying debts for generations. our stupidity never ceases to amaze me!
Ali Baba
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 3:12:48 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 571
POPS: We should put you in charge at the treasury after 2012 as a Financial Secretary!!
guru267
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 3:33:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
I told wazuans inflation would not fall whether we liked it or not.. And the strength in the kshs is a very temporary reaction..

Ndungu's foolishness will be further exposed going forward!!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
KulaRaha
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 3:48:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
Its already exposed:


KENYA NET DOMESTIC BORROWING IN Q1 2011/12 AT 12.3 BLN SHILLINGS VS TARGET OF 49.8 BLN SHILLINGS

KENYA - TOTAL REVENUE COLLECTION IN Q1 2011/12 AT 149.1 BLN SHILLINGS, OFF TARGET BY 30.2 BLN SHILLINGS

This fool will have to pay 30%+ on bonds to get anyone to invest in his paper.

Watch this space...
Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
guru267
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:03:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
KulaRaha wrote:
This fool will have to pay 30%+ on bonds to get anyone to invest in his paper.

Watch this space...


That borrowing rate is unsustainable especially for short term T BILLS...
I really do not know what the intended end game of CBK is but it looks like a very hard landing is in check..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
KulaRaha
#6 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:07:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/26/2007
Posts: 6,514
guru267 wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
This fool will have to pay 30%+ on bonds to get anyone to invest in his paper.

Watch this space...


That borrowing rate is unsustainable especially for short term T BILLS...
I really do not know what the intended end game of CBK is but it looks like a very hard landing is in check..


Why would an institution investor give money to CBK at 16% on t bills when they can give to banks at 27% for the same tenor?


Business opportunities are like buses,there's always another one coming
StatMeister
#7 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:18:08 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 868
Location: La Islas Galápagos
KulaRaha wrote:
guru267 wrote:
KulaRaha wrote:
This fool will have to pay 30%+ on bonds to get anyone to invest in his paper.

Watch this space...


That borrowing rate is unsustainable especially for short term T BILLS...
I really do not know what the intended end game of CBK is but it looks like a very hard landing is in check..


Why would an institution investor give money to CBK at 16% on t bills when they can give to banks at 27% for the same tenor?




Haiya, 27% is the rate the banks charge you. For that, they pay you 1%.
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work
jerry
#8 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:24:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/29/2006
Posts: 2,570
KulaRaha wrote:
Its already exposed:


KENYA NET DOMESTIC BORROWING IN Q1 2011/12 AT 12.3 BLN SHILLINGS VS TARGET OF 49.8 BLN SHILLINGS

KENYA - TOTAL REVENUE COLLECTION IN Q1 2011/12 AT 149.1 BLN SHILLINGS, OFF TARGET BY 30.2 BLN SHILLINGS

This fool will have to pay 30%+ on bonds to get anyone to invest in his paper.

Watch this space...

@pops, blame the IMF or are they going to assist in bridging the gap in tax collection @KulaRaha.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
josiah33
#9 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 5:29:26 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
BLAME IT ON PROF.NDUNGU'S OL' SKOOL ECONOMICS.
Liv
#10 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:17:35 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
People.... you need to have some patience.

Inflation did not rise to 18% overnight. It has been building since Jan 2011. It cannot come down overnight.

The Effect of the CBK actions will start showing in Jan 2012.... and it will take like another 1 year to see 1-digit inflation rate.

Next month - Fuel prices are expected to be lower...as the exchange rate fell in Nov 2011...this will result in some easing of inflation.

But CBK did not have many choices to control inflation... They had to raise the interest rates... . We only blame Prof Ndungu for doing this too late....and doing it too abruptly. They should have started raising the interest rates slowly in Dec 2010....that is the mistake they did.
Ali Baba
#11 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:41:32 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/29/2008
Posts: 571
LIZ: Then Prof Ndung'u is ahead of time,not too late.You say that he should have started raising interest rates in DEC 2011!!!LOL!
guru267
#12 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:45:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Liv wrote:
But CBK did not have many choices to control inflation... They had to raise the interest rates... . We only blame Prof Ndungu for doing this too late....and doing it too abruptly. They should have started raising the interest rates slowly in Dec 2011....that is the mistake they did.


@Liv are you of the opinion that excessive borrowing and consumption(demand) are fueling Kenyan inflation?? If you are then your suggestion has weight..

Well im of the opinion that the 18% inflation is being driven by food, fuel, and the dollar strength(more than kshs weakness).. nothing more nothing less..

These are all external to the CBK's mandate so whether the timing was right or not is a non issue.. This is because the CBK rate has no effect on this type of inflation whether its at 4%, 11%, 16.5% or 30%..
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Mainat
#13 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:01:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
Liv-as you aver, the honorable guvnor made an error in not raising interest rates in Jan 2011 (he actually cut them). A massive given many other commentators who seem to know more about real economics suggested he do that.
guru 267-has been doing some reading and correctly diagnosis the inflation as having been supply-side driven.
The correct answer is the ngreat nguvnor has given his job to the IMF. He like those city hall employees who leave their jackets at the offices and go off to do their proper business
Sehemu ndio nyumba
Cde Monomotapa
#14 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 10:51:55 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
Save for Liv, U are all fired if u were execs.in my employ!! Deal with what is instead of this what coulda, woulda.
StatMeister
#15 Posted : Wednesday, November 16, 2011 8:45:27 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 868
Location: La Islas Galápagos
guru267 wrote:
Liv wrote:
But CBK did not have many choices to control inflation... They had to raise the interest rates... . We only blame Prof Ndungu for doing this too late....and doing it too abruptly. They should have started raising the interest rates slowly in Dec 2011....that is the mistake they did.


@Liv are you of the opinion that excessive borrowing and consumption(demand) are fueling Kenyan inflation?? If you are then your suggestion has weight..

Well im of the opinion that the 18% inflation is being driven by food, fuel, and the dollar strength(more than kshs weakness).. nothing more nothing less..

These are all external to the CBK's mandate so whether the timing was right or not is a non issue.. This is because the CBK rate has no effect on this type of inflation whether its at 4%, 11%, 16.5% or 30%..


@guru, inflation is going to fall, mostly because the economy will go into a tail spin soon enough (if it already hasn't).

And then, CBK will pump in more circulation to stimulate demand. Ndungu & CBK will not give results without the more painful side effects.
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work
guru267
#16 Posted : Wednesday, November 16, 2011 9:17:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Save for Liv, U are all fired if u were execs.in my employ!! Deal with what is instead of this what coulda, woulda.


I suggest expansionary fiscal policies through increased spending on infrastructure and irrigation and housing to boost supply..

The CBK is irrelevant in this matter...
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
VituVingiSana
#17 Posted : Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:34:21 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,095
Location: Nairobi
The 'stronger' KES will not stay there much longer. CBK might as well let it drift towards 100 (not weaker than 100) & adjust interest rates to maintain it at 100.

It is time for Kenyans to buy more local goods. The largest import is fuel but that can be reduced by sourcing local bio-fuels (not easy but it can be done) over the next 5 years.

I saw a guy who made fuel from castor oil seeds, jatropha, etc. We can also use ethanol blended into the fuel we use.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Liv
#18 Posted : Wednesday, November 16, 2011 10:55:44 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
@Alibaba - thanks for Correction. That was typo...I meant CBK should have started increasing interest rates from Dec 2010.

@ Guru - Inflation may have been caused by the supply factors.... but that is mainly with respect to food. Dealing with supply factors take a lot of time.... you have a good suggestion ...i.e. irrigation....but that is for long term.

You are right the USD has strengthened... but this should have affected all countries equally. Kenya and many other african countries were however more affected because their exports are far much lower than imports. In 2010 Kenya's exports were sh 410B compared to imports of sh 947B. With higher demand for the dollar from all countries (everyone has been running away from Euro)....Kenya and other countries with lower exports had their currencie depreciate - become weak resulting in IMPORTED inflation...which is not strictly a supply issue....like food.

The huge difference of sh 537B between exports and imports tells you something..... despite years of economic growth we are more consumers than producers....our growth is more consumption driven.... hence higher imports...not much to show for production - this is more reflected in exports...which have not been growing.... this means we can not rule out DEMAND INFLATION.

How would CBK deal with this? RAISE THE INTEREST RATES. This solves this problem in 2 ways

1) Strength the Kshs - we have little to export. so sell our money to dollar investors in order have USD inflows.... this will bring the exchange rate to better levels -- this is being achieved as we talk.... this results in Lower IMPORTED inflation and multiplier effect of paticularly fuel

2) Reduce demand - we are a consumer society...most people borrow to buy consumer items - vehicles, household items etc. (that is why our imports are rising at alrming rate)... only a few companies borrow to produce...and these are mostly huge corporates who can get other sources of funds when borrowing become expensive.

INFLATION MUST COME DOWN FIRST.... then we can think of growth after that.

Cde Monomotapa
#19 Posted : Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:01:17 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 5,964
guru267 wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Save for Liv, U are all fired if u were execs.in my employ!! Deal with what is instead of this what coulda, woulda.


I suggest expansionary fiscal policies through increased spending on infrastructure and irrigation and housing to boost supply..

The CBK is irrelevant in this matter...

Where have U been since 2002?
Liv
#20 Posted : Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:15:42 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/14/2006
Posts: 1,311
guru267 wrote:
Cde Monomotapa wrote:
Save for Liv, U are all fired if u were execs.in my employ!! Deal with what is instead of this what coulda, woulda.


I suggest expansionary fiscal policies through increased spending on infrastructure and irrigation and housing to boost supply..

The CBK is irrelevant in this matter...



@Guru, In all this the main star is CBK....
the MAIN mandate of every central bank everywhere is:

STABLIZE PRICES - Not economic growth.

Professor Ndung'u errored early this year by thinking economic growth is his responsibility. It is not.

His is to deal with inflation and exchange rates (stablize prices). period.
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