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Homosexuality and Democracy
Inuendo
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 10:54:18 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/13/2011
Posts: 151
Following the recent Father Kizito and the CJ in waiting sagas, i have been racking my mind over the whole homosexual thing.

According to Wikipedia "Homophobia is a term used to refer to a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards lesbian and gay and in some cases bisexual, transgender people and behaviour although these are usually covered under biphobia and transphobia. Intersex and asexual people are also sometimes included. Definitions refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and irrational fear"

Democracy on the other hand according to the same Wikipedia "is a form of government in which all citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives. Ideally, this includes equal (and more or less direct) participation in the proposal, development and passage of legislation into law. It can also encompass social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination."

So a few questions arise....
1. If Kenyans were to do a referendum on whether or not to allow homosexuality would be in order to do so in the global village we are in?

2. Since am pretty sure majority of Kenyans would vote to reject, would we be denying the minority their right? (Am not in support of homosexuality by the way and I have no apologies for that either)

3. Why do governments such as the US keep pressurizing African countries to adopt homosexuality as a way of life when the majority do not want it it hence the democracy bit? Shouldn't we be allowed to set our own laws as we wish ama nani ako na stencil ya law zetu?Sad

Anyway.....have you guys noticed how most TV programmes(sp) and movies have at least one gay/lesbian in them . Why is the US so intent on shoving their silly lifestyles on us??

Oh and i heard a very respectable radio "queen" some few years back say that it was ok to be gay/lesbian... i know everyone is allowed their opinion just like i am, but influencing my kids on radio with such nonsense should definitely be out of order!!Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quantity in the world. Everyone thinks he has enough.
masukuma
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 8:04:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
hehe, this is a storm but let me comment. I happen to be on the same ship as you are sailing. let me outline terms that people confuse or use interchangeably,

1. Freedom
2. Democracy
3. Westernisation
4. Modernization
5. Developed

it is very possible to have one without the other, for example China is a Modern society but not a westernised society. Democracy is the majority having its way!
Democracy is not the only way to Mordernization or Development - its the way the US used, the UK did not industrialize through democracy.
@Inuendo - the Hollywood knows that
"If you repeat a lie many times, people are bound to start believing it" and
"when you walk into a stinky toilet it only smells in the beginning, if you stay in there for long enough olfactory fatigue kicks in and progressively it seems to stink less with each passing moment - its not that the smell has gone, its because you have gotten used to it"


All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Drunkard
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 8:53:29 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
@INUENDO,
I think you need to get your facts right in particular, your perception towards homosexuality and as you put it-"Why is the US so intent on shoving their silly lifestyles on us-".
First, US constitution is very clear on marriage- marriage is between a man and a woman-, Therefore US federal goverment do not recognize same sex relationship, in USA, same sex couples are yet to enjoy same benefits as heterosexual couples, note that very clearly.Nevertheless, US government, both state and federal recognized that a section of it's people, no matter how small it is, have homesexual choice of living and decided that they're going to treat them as humane as possible. This bring me to my second part.
USA do not want us to be homosexuals but what they're pushing is for us to treat all our people with decency no matter how they chose to live their lifes.What are we gonna do to homosexuals they're our kids too? no matter how much we don't like the act, they're part of our society. I am a straight man so why should gay people bother me, unless you're scared that you might turn gay if you see a gay man, why bothered? We have bigger problems as kenyans than the gay issue, let gay people do their thing!
masukuma
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 9:06:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
@Drunkard, its because WE CHOSE TO! and we chose to because WE CAN! it does not have to make sense to everyone - it just has to make sense to us, they have made their choice and we have made ours. so people should not force their lifestyle choices on us...we too have choices on how to handle our own matters in our own way.

who determines our priorities?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Inuendo
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 9:18:35 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/13/2011
Posts: 151
@Drunkard, thank you for the opinion but we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Not that i fear being "infected" with homosexuality lakini ushenzi ni ushenzi! Just because our brothers and sisters across the oceans have seen it fit for themselves to accept it as a norm doesn't mean we Africans have to accept it. That is what my point is!

In regard to legality, i haven't said anywhere that it is legal or not illegal in the US, what am basically saying is that the US government along with other western governments need to learn that we as African or particularly Kenyans feel nothing for Homosexuals and you can take that to the bank! Hence my reference to democracy being about majority choosing what is law in their country and what is not. Wewe lazima umekuwa brainwashed into thinking that its a lifestyle blah blah blah.....its ok.......they have rights too....... AM HOMOPHOBIC AND PROUD TO BE!

You talk about us treating them with decency? Where is the decency with two men landing airports where there are none! What am saying is that as much as its their right to hide behind closed doors and do their silly landing its my right not to have my kids being told that its ok whereas it is not
Common sense is the most evenly distributed quantity in the world. Everyone thinks he has enough.
Drunkard
#6 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 10:24:29 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
@ Inuendo
When you say democracy is about the majority, I agree, but does it mean what a majority have decided is ultimately the law? No! It seams your assumption of democracy is, if the entire Kenya vote 99% no gays, then no gays should be in Kenya. If thats what it is, then your assumption is flawed in so many ways, let us look at a simple case- Rift Valley people take a vote to decide whether Kikuyu should live in Rift Valley, assume high turnouts among Kalenjins and the vote come back 90% NO- do you think that should be the law?
Secondly, if you break down democracy to the lowest level, it goes back to and individual doing what they think is right for themselve, it doesn't say a group of people deciding what an individual should do.
So, the defination of democracy could also mean gay people have a right to be gay!
masukuma
#7 Posted : Wednesday, June 01, 2011 10:57:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Drunkard, YES! since the many have chosen for whatever reason! its their right in a DEMOCRACY i.e. a system that recognizes the rights of the majority. What you are talking about is FREEDOM and the two are not interchangeable words.
remember that you can have freedom in a democracy, freedom without democracy, democracy without freedom and any other permutation of the 5 words I listed above.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Rahatupu
#8 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 3:59:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
@Inuendo, I feel you. This illusion called freedom ala US/Europe style is the source of so many of our woes today. We are a copy cat country that takes it as it comes from the West. We have too many lobbyists ambao wananyemelea "donor" (read West) money to spread whatever bug in the name of freedom/human rights... matope.

@Masukuma, its slowly catching on as you pointed ... when reaped too many times.... what bothers me most is when they try to influence our kids through the media into thinking its "normal/right" and a matter of choice.
@mlevi, what I know and appreciate is that, just like drinking, these matters should not be made public debate. Whatever/whoever/however you sleep with is private morality. BTW all these activists for sexuality rights how many have declared openly ni mashoga?? They still hide in the shadows knowing they are not acceptable in the society.
Ms Mkenya
#9 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 5:32:07 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 869
Location: Nairobi
A recent study showed that only 1% of Americans are gay. Which means they are not as many as we are led to believe.

I wonder what the stats are in Kenya but i know most Kenyans are against homosexuality. That's a fact. I once mentioned to someone i have a gay friend (Actually he turned gay, was straight before)and i immediately saw a difference in the person. This is repeated over & over again. Maybe we should have that referendum and finish this matter once and for all..

For me, myself & I, i believe it is downright bad. If it was meant to be, the anatomy would have been different. Period.
....above all, to stand.
masukuma
#10 Posted : Thursday, June 02, 2011 6:38:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
I agree we should settle this once and for all via a referendum I believe that some areas should be denoted...

All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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