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Uchumi Supermarkets - Kirubi & Co Acquitted
Mpenzi
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 12:50:33 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/17/2008
Posts: 1,234
Kaigangio
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 12:58:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
this was expected and is not coming as a surprise...our courts are only for the petty crimes...NKT!!!!!
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
VituVingiSana
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 1:38:50 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,221
Location: Nairobi
I wish this case was delayed until Willy Mutunga had been confirmed!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
The Merchant
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 2:27:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/24/2010
Posts: 846
Location: KENYA
If you steal in Kenya. Steal big because then, we'll let you go free. Steal small and you'll pay for the rest of your life. Applies elsewhere in the world also, to be fair.
2012
#5 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 3:01:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
The Merchant wrote:
Applies elsewhere in the world also, to be fair.


Not always. Bernie Madoff got 150yrs, Enron and Martha Steward didn't get away with it but if they were Kenyans they'd be laughing all the way.... But Kenya is special, imagine the pyramid schemes masterminds are still kulaing maisha!

BBI will solve it
:)
The Merchant
#6 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 4:53:21 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/24/2010
Posts: 846
Location: KENYA
2012 wrote:
The Merchant wrote:
Applies elsewhere in the world also, to be fair.


Not always. Bernie Madoff got 150yrs, Enron and Martha Steward didn't get away with it but if they were Kenyans they'd be laughing all the way.... But Kenya is special, imagine the pyramid schemes masterminds are still kulaing maisha!

Granted. But stealing big in almost all intances buys you TIME and notoriety which buys you POWER which allows you to control people and to STEAL MORE then have more money to buy TIME , get it. This vicious cycle ends when the big THIEF gets comfortable and leaves a fews loopholes which end his robbery streak.
hisah
#7 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 4:53:32 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
2012 wrote:
The Merchant wrote:
Applies elsewhere in the world also, to be fair.


Not always. Bernie Madoff got 150yrs, Enron and Martha Steward didn't get away with it but if they were Kenyans they'd be laughing all the way.... But Kenya is special, imagine the pyramid schemes masterminds are still kulaing maisha!



Not so fast here @2012. It is no secret that the top 6 banks in the US engaged in the largest foreclosure fraud in US history and none of these banks' owners are behind bars.

Everywhere you look as @Merchant has stated above, the small fish gets cooked when the fraud floor comes apart...

And besides if we use Madoff as an example (a small guy compared to the Wallstreet banksters) to run such a scheme, some lunatics at SEC knew it and did nothing about it despite the numerous whistle-blower tip offs.

The brokers that went down in KE in 2007 & 2008 also had irregularity issues which the CMA knew about, but as usual came in too late to the rescue of the small investor. NSSF has lost a large chunks due to the Disco Security broker scam.

This also reminds me of the ponzi (pyramid) schemes that happened in 2007, CBK flagged them instead of shutting them down immediately...

All these just sound like a Jim Cramer moment...

http://www.youtube.com/w...lY8&feature=related

Wallstreet the other side (43 minutes long) -->

http://www.youtube.com/w...list=PLBAE411093275FC33
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
2012
#8 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:25:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
hisah wrote:
Not so fast here @2012. It is no secret that the top 6 banks in the US engaged in the largest foreclosure fraud in US history and none of these banks' owners are behind bars.


True but do you know of even one Kenyan convicted? Patni still walks around and I hear he's now a respected Kenyan elder who represents us in international circles. I can't wait for Gichuru and Okemo to be sent to prison!


Also don't forget that it is easier to convict the chicken thief in Kenya because he cannot afford a good representation or the correct lawyer (Did you see Uhuru's lawyers at the Hague? Hata Ocampo huwesi). I know of lawyers who are like Kenyan fundis, he's a carpenter but can fix your car too if you asked (hata hiyo sisi tunafanya)

BBI will solve it
:)
muganda
#9 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:35:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,906
Controversial, I admit, but I've always harboured the belief Chris Kirubi was a public lynch pin in Uchumi's demise.

Yes yes I know about his related business transaction claims, and Bottlers/Hacco being paid earlier than regular suppliers, and the CEO who was related...

But I believe it was easier to blame him than accept true story of harsh battleground at the time:
1. Expansion was necessitated by entry of competition
2. Uchumi always had healthy reserves making it senseless to borrow, at first glance anyway
3. He was always personally invested (shares, reputation) making him top of line in case of losses

4. When thinks became difficult, Kirubi made strong moves to source experienced foreign partner, which was unfortunately vetoed as it was said he'd benefit most
5. Kirubi was hounded out as Chairman a full 2 years before bankruptcy. It was open knowledge of hostile relations with board, who carried the day, for almost full year before his exit.

6. Can't forget the Staff who pilfered their employer to early demise.
7. Boy did you see how Sameer fleed the scene after getting preview of the murky waters


Okay okay, I'm not saying he does not bear ANY responsibility, just that he's given a whole lot more than he deserves - so thinks the court today at least.

The Board of Directors and CEO and staff at the time, take the bigger pie in my book. Weren't they paid from 2004-2006? Who pitched the 2005 rights issue? financial advisors, auditors... Culpable!


wote
#10 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:01:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/18/2007
Posts: 217
The judge in this case says that uchumi is not a parastatal and as such board members were not accountable to the public'' what a pile of 'KAKA'. In essence the judge is saying that its okay for the board to steal from pulic limited company. Look if this are the kind of judges we have in the country then Kenya is in deep trouble.
First and foremost there was no dispute as to who owns what in the company, otherwise it would have been a civil matter.The case centred on criminal act that was committed by the board. For the so called learned but corrupt judge's information. ICDC and KWAL are majority share holders who happen to be Government.
propertyzote
#11 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:09:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/25/2010
Posts: 283
Location: Nairobi
what are your expected share price??
www.propertyzote.com the ultimate ‘one stop online shop’ of choice connecting more people with more properties at the click of a button
hisah
#12 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:20:46 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
wote wrote:
The judge in this case says that uchumi is not a parastatal and as such board members were not accountable to the public'' what a pile of 'KAKA'. In essence the judge is saying that its okay for the board to steal from pulic limited company. Look if this are the kind of judges we have in the country then Kenya is in deep trouble.
First and foremost there was no dispute as to who owns what in the company, otherwise it would have been a civil matter.The case centred on criminal act that was committed by the board. For the so called learned but corrupt judge's information. ICDC and KWAL are majority share holders who happen to be Government.

Sounds like the Lehman brothers case, AIG, Bear Sterns and the Freddic Mac and Fannie Mae cases... Get used to it, the corporates own you and run the show Sad
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
Burning Spear
#13 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:38:51 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
you don't jail someone who impacts +vly and notably to the economy.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
VituVingiSana
#14 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 6:55:59 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,221
Location: Nairobi
Burning Spear wrote:
you don't jail someone who impacts +vly and notably to the economy.

Mwizi...! What +ve? That's typical BS that Kenyans accept or believe!

gichuru, okemo, merali, pattni, etc!!!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Ngalaka
#15 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:01:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 1,566
wote wrote:
The judge in this case says that uchumi is not a parastatal and as such board members were not accountable to the public'' what a pile of 'KAKA'. In essence the judge is saying that its okay for the board to steal from pulic limited company. Look if this are the kind of judges we have in the country then Kenya is in deep trouble.
First and foremost there was no dispute as to who owns what in the company, otherwise it would have been a civil matter.The case centred on criminal act that was committed by the board. For the so called learned but corrupt judge's information. ICDC and KWAL are majority share holders who happen to be Government.


Judges determine cases on the basis of arguments put forward in court.
If the prosecution argued that Kirubi did not follow the procurement procedures as stipulated for public corporations and the defence argues that the charges are defective, then who do you blame.
I guess all that Kirubis lawyer was saying is that Kirubi was not bound by the corporations strictures.

If or not Kirubi defrauded share holders is a different matter altogether.
Isuni yilu yi maa me muyo - ni Mbisuu
The Merchant
#16 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:13:49 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/24/2010
Posts: 846
Location: KENYA
VituVingiSana wrote:
Burning Spear wrote:
you don't jail someone who impacts +vly and notably to the economy.

Mwizi...! What +ve? That's typical BS that Kenyans accept or believe!

gichuru, okemo, merali, pattni, etc!!!

This is EXACTLY what I have been trying to say. No matter what you do or steal, if you steal enough you will achieve a certain notoriety which will endear you to people like @ burning spear. Thats the way it is. @VVS, Its not a kenyan phenomenon, its worldwide as @hisah put it above...Sad
Drunkard
#17 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:18:02 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
hisah wrote:
2012 wrote:
The Merchant wrote:
Applies elsewhere in the world also, to be fair.


Not always. Bernie Madoff got 150yrs, Enron and Martha Steward didn't get away with it but if they were Kenyans they'd be laughing all the way.... But Kenya is special, imagine the pyramid schemes masterminds are still kulaing maisha!



Not so fast here @2012. It is no secret that the top 6 banks in the US engaged in the largest foreclosure fraud in US history and none of these banks' owners are behind bars.

Everywhere you look as @Merchant has stated above, the small fish gets cooked when the fraud floor comes apart...

And besides if we use Madoff as an example (a small guy compared to the Wallstreet banksters) to run such a scheme, some lunatics at SEC knew it and did nothing about it despite the numerous whistle-blower tip offs.

The brokers that went down in KE in 2007 & 2008 also had irregularity issues which the CMA knew about, but as usual came in too late to the rescue of the small investor. NSSF has lost a large chunks due to the Disco Security broker scam.

This also reminds me of the ponzi (pyramid) schemes that happened in 2007, CBK flagged them instead of shutting them down immediately...

All these just sound like a Jim Cramer moment...

http://www.youtube.com/w...lY8&feature=related

Wallstreet the other side (43 minutes long) -->

http://www.youtube.com/w...list=PLBAE411093275FC33


Kenyans never stop amazing anyone, do we really have to compare our failures to those of the US and wallstreet but intentionally decide that we are not comparing the US success to our success? Yes US have fail in some avenues which included the credit crisis case but their success overweigh their failures so it is absurd to see a fellow Kenyan trying to justify our constant failures to US occassional failures, atleast they still have a moral commitment to take care of their people, something we do not have, if the kenya of tommorrow will be build by people who, just like our leaders, cannot take responsibility but instead find ways to excuse everything including pointing a figure to a country whose wealth feed and protect its people and Millions around the world, then we're doom.
VituVingiSana
#18 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:18:32 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,221
Location: Nairobi
The Merchant wrote:
VituVingiSana wrote:
Burning Spear wrote:
you don't jail someone who impacts +vly and notably to the economy.

Mwizi...! What +ve? That's typical BS that Kenyans accept or believe!

gichuru, okemo, merali, pattni, etc!!!

This is EXACTLY what I have been trying to say. No matter what you do or steal, if you steal enough you will achieve a certain notoriety which will endear you to people like @ burning spear. Thats the way it is. @VVS, Its not a kenyan phenomenon, its worldwide as @hisah put it above...Sad
In Kenya, people are ready to die to protect the 'right to steal'...!!!

When I see people praising or calling merali a tycoon, it pisses me off. He was/is the frontman for crooked politicians! Same for pattni.

As for gichuru, he was in bed with the worst of them. Then there is moi who Kenyans call mzee & many will still lick his arse! He destroyed our economy in the 1980s & 1990s!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
earthvoice
#19 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:27:55 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/29/2011
Posts: 257
it is getting quite heated up in here...!
"All intelligent investing is value investing -- acquiring more than you are paying for. You must value the business in order to value the stock." - Charlie Munger.
muganda
#20 Posted : Tuesday, May 24, 2011 7:55:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,906
In Kenya, people are mostly 'guilty first' then proven innocent. Look at court findings after prosecutor's valiant efforts:

-- All 15 witnesses said accused persons are not to blame

-- Star witness disagrees 147m sale was undervaluation

-- Two independent valuations at the time adduced showing value of asset at 147m

-- Lastly Kirubi said they sold the asset because business needed funds due to servere financial crisis; and board, shareholders, government were aware



Heck! Kirubi could be a crook, but if I was in a jury of peers and received this evidence, I would acquit the guy...

Come to think of it, most wealthy Kenyans I hear of, are guilty...

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