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Rank: Member Joined: 9/26/2006 Posts: 9
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Please advice. How much (%) of the Construction cost should go towards Architectural,Structural /Civil,Mechanical & Electrical Services and Quantity Surveying for a mutli-family dwelling property?
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/27/2008 Posts: 70
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Ideally the fees should be as per guidelines from the ministry of public works (MOW has a guideline on fees for consultancy services in building projects). If you don’t go that route and have to pay the consultants in percentage terms,it could be anything upto10%,depending on what you agree. Hope this helps.
As an Skerian,I acknowledge that I have benefited immensely from the info posted here by others. There4,I promise to assist others in the same way by responding to request for info,as long as am privileged in the subject issue..SK Pledge..
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/10/2008 Posts: 68 Location: Nairobi
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@Osa The architect is known as the chief consultant in the design process. After you approve the final design (s)he will approach the other consultants you have mentioned (suppose to tender) on your behalf and get their input and cost. The total cost will be your design cost. The architects commission is capped at 6% of the above cost. There are also site visits to take into account which are usually an added cost if not included. So for you to get a cost projection you will have to approach an architect first. Average building cost KShs 15,000-25,000 per square metre (to be confirmed) NB: The design and construction costs are separate 'If you are not living on the edge,you are taking up too much space' "We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children" Native American Proverb
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/1/2009 Posts: 2
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Osa, You did right in asking about this. Many real estate investors do not factor consultancy fees in their cost estimate; hence they end up getting surprised when consultants finally come in. It is always smart to employ consultants from the inception stage. If you get one with good experience in the particular type of buildings you want to set up,you could even end up saving upto 10% of what you had planned to spend,and this is the money that pays the consultants! By the way I am an expert in one of the fields you mentioned-with experience in real estate (ranging from up-market to low cost housing units,and could advise you further on how to go about it. You can drop me a line at my e-mail (in my profile)
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/30/2009 Posts: 4
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Hi, Its good that you have asked that question.Kindly note that Architects and Quantity Surveyors professional fees are guided by Cap 525 OF THE LAWS OF KENYA OR conditions of engagement as stipulated in the GOVERNMENT OF KENYA CONDITIONS OF ENGAGEMENT AND SCALE OF FEES FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES FOR BUILDING AND ENGINEERING WORKS.
This amounts to a minimum of 6% for the architect and about 2.5% for the quantity surveyor.They go up depending on reputation and experience of the consultants.usually total fees end up to abt 12%.Sounds expensive but believe me it is cheaper compared to the cost of rectifying mistakes often done by quacks.
Please Ensure you are working with qualified consultants registered by their respective registration boards ie Board of registration of Architects and Quantity surveyors and the Engineers registration board.
There are many consortiums as well that offer all the services in one but again they are guided by the above laws and the fees usually end up at 12% in total.Their main aim is for the various consultants to tap into individual synergies after working together over time.Good luck and let me know if u need further assistance.
Am an Architect by training but just sat my registration exams.Hope to know my registration status by Dec.Even if I cant give the service,I can direct you to friends,or the the Board of registration or the Architectural association of Kenya,who can give you the whole list of consultants,who are in good standing,that you can choose from.They are friendly and encourage the public to go to them for assistance.They will also shed light on the duties of the consultants as well as their required professional conduct.This way you know exctly what you are paying for..I have seen many loose money and getting poor service and would not want you to go through that.Good luck
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/30/2009 Posts: 4
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Hi, Its good that you have asked that question.Kindly note that Architects and Quantity Surveyors professional fees are guided by Cap 525 OF THE LAWS OF KENYA OR conditions of engagement as stipulated in the GOVERNMENT OF KENYA CONDITIONS OF ENGAGEMENT AND SCALE OF FEES FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES FOR BUILDING AND ENGINEERING WORKS.
This amounts to a minimum of 6% for the architect and about 2.5% for the quantity surveyor.They go up depending on reputation and experience of the consultants.usually total fees end up to abt 12%.Sounds expensive but believe me it is cheaper compared to the cost of rectifying mistakes often done by quacks.
Please Ensure you are working with qualified consultants registered by their respective registration boards ie Board of registration of Architects and Quantity surveyors and the Engineers registration board.
There are many consortiums as well that offer all the services in one but again they are guided by the above laws and the fees usually end up at 12% in total.Their main aim is for the various consultants to tap into individual synergies after working together over time.Good luck and let me know if u need further assistance.
Am an Architect by training but just sat my registration exams.Hope to know my registration status by Dec.Even if I cant give the service,I can direct you to friends,or the the Board of registration or the Architectural association of Kenya,who can give you the whole list of consultants,who are in good standing,that you can choose from.They are friendly and encourage the public to go to them for assistance.They will also shed light on the duties of the consultants as well as their required professional conduct.This way you know exctly what you are paying for..I have seen many loose money and getting poor service and would not want you to go through that.Good luck
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/11/2008 Posts: 121
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@ Mrefu Tall ssup son? well said... watu walipe professionally!!!! lakini wakitaka shortcuts ni sawa tu..the results ALWAYS display the input therein... less is more for Architects only!! Less is more....for Architects only!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/30/2009 Posts: 4
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sema bwana Kishindo...never thot u were here on SK.anyway tuelimishe wanainchi...most pple think Kazi yetu ni kuchora tu!!!...lol
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,136 Location: Nairobi
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Why shud an architect or quantity surveyor get a %??? That incentivizes them to jack up the cost!!! And why shud the fees be 'fixed' by the government... at best have a maximum lakini this is BS... why cant I negotiate my fees??? Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/11/2008 Posts: 121
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@vvs,how do you charge for your services in your Accounting/Finance field? even banks charge interest as a % of the principal. I however agree with you...in some cases % billing 'incentivises'inflating costs but this largely happens in public=read Gov. projects because of the kickbacks involved. However,note that 1. Building costs depend on the quality & source of materials used plus the labour and handling costs e.t.c. 2. The rates for the above are guided by a publication indicating rates/costs that is periodically released by the Joint building council(JBC)of Kenya...so a keen client will be able to cross check costs. 3. Rates are negotiable but should be reasonable for both client and consultants. When seeking an architect(and other consultants) at least get one who looks out for your interests in pursuing your goals cost effectively. Most Kenyans tend to think they are paying consultants 'too much',they side step them and get nicely screwed by fundis/contractors since no one is there to advise them. It is then that they seek remedial measures from professionals but hey,Its your choice..its a free country..... less is more for Architects only!! Less is more....for Architects only!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/22/2008 Posts: 13
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@kishindo (ibra),its malicious 2imply govern projcts costs r inflated without evidence!,on the fee issue,% fee scale is outdated and does not reward the consultant comunsarte with the effort put into a project,eg a small one room with gold and diamond finishings wil charge more than a larger low cost yet work involded is more.i encourage time based fees,in developed countries fee scales are history n i also know some leading consultants who charge on time and resources involved.Cap 525 also mentions this
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Kishindo,Mrefu and Ubuntu, Semeni bana,been long........I can see you are putting what you learned at 'THE' 'em days into good use!!! The chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world in which it is overestimated. ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/11/2008 Posts: 121
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@ Ubuntu we all know that Govt. projects are always inflated to oil the wheels of development na uwache kuni-expose...wat is the oppsite of lol? weka hapo.. less is more for Architects only!! Less is more....for Architects only!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/30/2009 Posts: 4
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Well said ubuntu, Time basis is also a way of charging.but what tells you people wont inflate the working hours.How do you tell how much time you will need to come up with a design and take it through to production,tender and supervision?I think fees scales are good for the client to quickly project his consultancy fees.All in all the Cap 525 also spells out some of the services that can be charged on time basis,so i believe whoever asked the question can decide,or the board /AAK can advice him on what is better given his project.At the same time all professions are undergoing changes and we need to adapt to new ways of doing things.However you can't know where you are heading,until u look back at where you are from.The 'outdated' systems will sure inform ny future adjustments...I stand to be corrected.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/26/2006 Posts: 9
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I agree with some ideas raised here~in. I had the same question on the 'moral hazard' of a %. If the consultants know that he can make more money when bulding cost is 25,000/sq M; then what would be the incentive of helping you with ideas so that you scale down cost to 15,000/Sq. M?
On that note,just for comparison sake,what would an architecturalplan be for a 5 floor flat [2 bedrooms] on a 50*100 in Roysambu,Ruaka or Thika/Ruiru area?
Also,consider time-wise for other services.
Thank you.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/8/2008 Posts: 947
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@ waweru,ubuntu,kishindo et al. Who are the local groups offering a scheme similar to the housing finance makao scheme which is a one stop shop for everything??
SK A.L.U.M.N.I (Alcoholic Liason and Undergarments Manager of Nakedness Internationally)
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/26/2008 Posts: 190
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@osa,
As a developer,the firstt step you take is conceptualizing the project.
The moment you pick out the project you want to do,you can engage a Qs to do a very quick development budget which,if you constructing houses for sale can quickly indicate whether the project is worth it or not. This they would use the cost per sm to achieve the construction costs.
Once a client finds a project which is viable the Architect can then begin to design based on a budget limit already set. It would take a silly consultant to do a proposal which will kill the project!
By the time a project goes to tender so many cost checks and controls are done to ensure that the project does not exceed the budget.
For family houses,the architect will work on either the specifications given by the client or a budget limit. In the first options the arch will assume that the client is not short of cash and can design using the highest standards of finishes he can think of.- i know of a residential house that cost over 100m! and not the VPs.
2nd option the arch will design based on the budget limit set. the QS in this case will ensure that the finishes specified do not increase the cost of the building.
In all these the consultants will act in good faith to advise the clients.
I reiterate that no good consultant in their right mind would want to increase the cost of a project to inflate their fees.
hey
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/18/2009 Posts: 175
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@osa The % is based on actual cost not on budget cost,which comes out when the works is tendered and the contrctact is awarded all thev way to final cost after implimentation. since the payments is made in stages(cap 5....) you will be able to balance out as works goes on hence you are covered in overpricing. any malpractice on the side of the architect or QS your remedy lies with the registration body BORAQ so long you paid the statutory consutancy fees and there is a contrct between the two parties depending on the size of the project there are other consultants involved especially service engineers though a structural engineer is almost a must you need to budget for them from the onset Some you win,Some you lose Some you win some you lose
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/11/2008 Posts: 121
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@ stark,makao is the only such set up i know of. Faulu kenya tried sometime back but was largely tailored for low-income settlements. However due to its popularity,more players are likely to adopt the model. less is more for Architects only!! Less is more....for Architects only!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/4/2009 Posts: 8
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There are the laid down procedures and standards of payment of a building plan and of any other construction works but to be truthful they are not followed to the letter. Municipal and county councils are in the lead in evading these procedures; I guess tis coz they are the same ones who approve them. For small buildings,you can approach a building technician or a CAD technician,like myself,and get all that is required at an affordable rate,yet up to standards. If you would like my services,you can drop me a mail at emartect@yahoo.co.uk.
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