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PLO to prosecute Kenyans who live above their means
Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/9/2010 Posts: 894 Location: Nairobi
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PLO has unveiled a new plan i.e to prosecute people who live above their means. Do you think that this plan will work? Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
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Rank: User Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 53
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I wish he could begin by defining what it means by living beyond ones means. Many Kenyans have different and innovative ways of making that extra coin. Such as savings, merry-go-round & chamas, NSE, animal & crop husbandry, transport industry, rent etc besides their monthly salaries. Out of this entrepreneurship, we have witnessed low-cadre employees leading more comfortable lives than their spendthrift bosses. I hope our good poet has familiarized himself with the new constitution that has expanded our fundamental rights and freedoms.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/24/2007 Posts: 1,805
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Identification of persons living above their means is a walk in the park. Proving that they are is also very easy. If a guy bought a 10M vehicle, he just needs to show a legitimate source. Hapana eti, I did this deal..... onyesha makaratasi then KRA also catch up with you quite easily. Remember, you are supposed to pay tax even on profits of deals.. Infact I see this as the simple way to mitigate corruption as opposed to long court porcesses like those of WR with no end on sight. If a cop has a Mat on the road, then he can account for a lifestyle of upto 100K from the mat per month, but you do not build three flats in six months from your mshahara, loans and matatu. It is just not legally possible. So I think it is possible to greatly mitigate corruption this way. I Think Therefore I Am
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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bwenyenye wrote:Identification of persons living above their means is a walk in the park. Proving that they are is also very easy. If a guy bought a 10M vehicle, he just needs to show a legitimate source. Hapana eti, I did this deal..... onyesha makaratasi then KRA also catch up with you quite easily. Remember, you are supposed to pay tax even on profits of deals.. Infact I see this as the simple way to mitigate corruption as opposed to long court porcesses like those of WR with no end on sight.
If a cop has a Mat on the road, then he can account for a lifestyle of upto 100K from the mat per month, but you do not build three flats in six months from your mshahara, loans and matatu. It is just not legally possible.
So I think it is possible to greatly mitigate corruption this way. Didn't the court rule against that living above one's mean way saying it is unconstitutional or something. I agree with you on the KRA thing. Best way to fight corruption and pharmacists too is to compare the suspects' tax return with his assets and spending during the relevant period then hit them with penalties and interests. He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 6,592 Location: Nairobi
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He'll need to convert the entire North Eastern into one big prison as 90% of Kenyans live above their means. BBI will solve it :)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/24/2010 Posts: 846 Location: KENYA
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Karema Hiti wrote:I wish he could begin by defining what it means by living beyond ones means. Many Kenyans have different and innovative ways of making that extra coin. Such as savings, merry-go-round & chamas, NSE, animal & crop husbandry, transport industry, rent etc besides their monthly salaries. Out of this entrepreneurship, we have witnessed low-cadre employees leading more comfortable lives than their spendthrift bosses. I hope our good poet has familiarized himself with the new constitution that has expanded our fundamental rights and freedoms. Nice. Living within ones means betrays a lack of creativity!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/24/2007 Posts: 1,805
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Elder wrote:bwenyenye wrote:Identification of persons living above their means is a walk in the park. Proving that they are is also very easy. If a guy bought a 10M vehicle, he just needs to show a legitimate source. Hapana eti, I did this deal..... onyesha makaratasi then KRA also catch up with you quite easily. Remember, you are supposed to pay tax even on profits of deals.. Infact I see this as the simple way to mitigate corruption as opposed to long court porcesses like those of WR with no end on sight.
If a cop has a Mat on the road, then he can account for a lifestyle of upto 100K from the mat per month, but you do not build three flats in six months from your mshahara, loans and matatu. It is just not legally possible.
So I think it is possible to greatly mitigate corruption this way. Didn't the court rule against that living above one's mean way saying it is unconstitutional or something. I agree with you on the KRA thing. Best way to fight corruption and pharmacists too is to compare the suspects' tax return with his assets and spending during the relevant period then hit them with penalties and interests. Yes. PLO Mboys had an issue in the court regarding this apporach.The way PLO remarked reminded me clearly of the dragon slayer Aaron. I do not think that being asked to account for your wealth on reasonable grounds is unconsitutional at all. The issue here is not the side hustles as long as they are acceptable in your employment contract e.g nothing stops you from acquiring a 200 acre farm on loan and investing in wheat farmng to pay off or making a reurn of 200% on shares. That is all legal and acceptable. I think the issue comes when you cannot explain how you got that farm i.e no loan, no cash, no sacco no saving, no legal gift etc. It can only mean that it is the proceeds of corruption. It simply shows that there is a new dawn. We have to cease the deal culture and have everything in proper books. I Think Therefore I Am
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 1,982 Location: matano manne
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IMHO, the poet got it wrong on the constitutional front as well on natural justice whereby one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof of guilt lies with the accuser. A "legal burden" or a "burden of persuasion" is an obligation that remains on a single party for the duration of the claim. Once the burden has been entirely discharged to the satisfaction of the trier of fact (magistrate or judge), the party carrying the burden will succeed in its claim. For example, the presumption of innocence places a legal burden upon the prosecution to prove all elements of the offense (generally beyond a reasonable doubt) and to disprove all the defenses except for affirmative defenses in which the proof of non-existence of all affirmative defense(s) is not constitutionally required of the prosecution.[2]. [Source: Wikipedia]
In our Constitution as well as Common Law: a criminal defendant is presumed innocent of the charges against them until they are proven guilty. Thus, the threshold of burden of proof is very high in criminal cases. PLO must be able to prove their version of the facts beyond reasonable doubt.I this case PLO and his mboys have to demonstrate the defendant’s guilt for each element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt..
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/23/2010 Posts: 1,229
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I agree (obviously) that we need to weed out corruption – but this fishing approach will not work. He should make sure he has done thorough investigations and has made out a case against the accused person before rushing off to the AG’s with the file. Its all about the facts facts facts. Not speculation. Not the conclusions that can be drawn by examining someone’s lifestyle. This business of conducting shoddy investigations and hoping that the court will convict on the basis of poetry read here and there wont take us far.
If someone is living “way above their means” (whatever that means) – its his job to show the court how our money was “stolen / misused” NOT to haul Kenyans into court to explain their lifestyle....
I agree that most public servants (and other Kenyans) have multiple sources of income. Teachers are the best example...few of them live solely on their salary. Most have projects running here and there. I wonder how many of us can account for every penny, and how many of us understand our tax obligations. Once worked somewhere where come every June, everyone would dump their tax forms on the accountant.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/9/2010 Posts: 894 Location: Nairobi
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For Sport wrote:I agree (obviously) that we need to weed out corruption – but this fishing approach will not work. He should make sure he has done thorough investigations and has made out a case against the accused person before rushing off to the AG’s with the file. Its all about the facts facts facts. Not speculation. Not the conclusions that can be drawn by examining someone’s lifestyle. This business of conducting shoddy investigations and hoping that the court will convict on the basis of poetry read here and there wont take us far.
If someone is living “way above their means” (whatever that means) – its his job to show the court how our money was “stolen / misused” NOT to haul Kenyans into court to explain their lifestyle....
I agree that most public servants (and other Kenyans) have multiple sources of income. Teachers are the best example...few of them live solely on their salary. Most have projects running here and there. I wonder how many of us can account for every penny, and how many of us understand our tax obligations. Once worked somewhere where come every June, everyone would dump their tax forms on the accountant.
plo will need alot to succeed. btw isnt it funny that we are supossed to declare all our incomes i.e both legal and illegal. and what happens the moment you declare your illegal income. Don't wait for the Last Judgment. It happens every day. ~Albert Camus, The Fall, 1956
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PLO to prosecute Kenyans who live above their means
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