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Insightful take on Nairobi Real Estate
Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,653
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MugundaMan wrote:tony stark wrote:MugundaMan wrote:wukan wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Na Kirinyaga Rd je?  Westlands an acre is going for easily 300 metre and above. The "average non-corrupt Joe" under 45 cannot obviously afford that, so it is a waste of time to preach the glories of Westlands on Wazoo. I was on Kirinyaga road just the other day behind that road the area where the grogan mechanics operate there is some huge building coming up there must be like over 10 floors. I was shocked to see that kind of investment in that area. Some investors are clearly seeing the potential of that area. Further up the road the chinese are doing some serious road construction for their ngara project. The problem with investing in a down at the heels area is that particular strategy is built on the developer's HOPE alone, which IMHO is not a good basis upon which to invest. Some areas just have a bad "taste" in the mouths of the average Kenyan. If you say for example you are going to put a luxury highrise in the middle of Dandora dumpsite, someone may think you have been smoking some bad bangi mbichi. Wewe wachana na bhangi. Use delusions of granduer as the excuse. Kirinyaga road is prime for redicovery. It is next to a dirty river that can be cleaned up. That part of nairobi river even has a part ... I think it called michuki park. Once the mechanics are kicked out... eventuality this place will blow up. Right now the are has several AirBnB for some studios and they look very busy. @Mugundaman for some so pro property I don't understand why you can't see the current ability and future potential of Kirinyaga road. I can easily see this place becoming a Nairobi "canary wharf" Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Kirinyaga road. I am just knocking the idea of Wukan's idea of luxury bedsitters on Kirinyaga road as it is The guy said he does not do Githurai 44 type typical Kenyan bedsitters but will do the high end New York style massive studio apartments (his idea of a bedsitter). Imagine forking 150k a month for a ka-one room with view like below. Haiwesekani jameni. Now those are the real delusions of grandeur from bangi mbichi! Fix the basic garbage collection, river pollution sewerage and clutter. I hope you are also joking that Kirinyaga rd can become Canary Wharf . Maybe only if the entire street is torn down to crumbs. https://www.nation.co.ke...5564-34tfysz/index.html
 @mugundaMan you need to be sleeping more the lack of sleep is self evident. I posted up there about how westlands is transforming into a hub and you told to stop because wazoo cannot afford 300m an acre as if studio/1b apts in westlands cost that much. I have told you the next area of transformation will the ngara area-it has much better commanding view of the city. You still arguing like a recently arrived diaspora. Yet property developers are already on the ground putting their millions to work. You ridiculed my idea of bedsitters yet on kipkabus road (near stima plaza) a developer is topping out on youth apartment must be like 10 floors. That picture you have posted is the proposed link road between Accra road and ngara area under the Eastern missing links road project. There will be 15 mt span bridge over the nairobi river. That means the area is about to open up in a big way which should explain why developers are pushing developments in the area. You will be surprised to see the place where Edermann is putting 34 floor apartments. You keep waiting for the garbage to be cleared it will too late. Honestly where did I say 150K rentals on kirinyaga road(what are you smoking?).
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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wukan wrote:MugundaMan wrote:tony stark wrote:MugundaMan wrote:wukan wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Na Kirinyaga Rd je? Westlands an acre is going for easily 300 metre and above. The "average non-corrupt Joe" under 45 cannot obviously afford that, so it is a waste of time to preach the glories of Westlands on Wazoo. I was on Kirinyaga road just the other day behind that road the area where the grogan mechanics operate there is some huge building coming up there must be like over 10 floors. I was shocked to see that kind of investment in that area. Some investors are clearly seeing the potential of that area. Further up the road the chinese are doing some serious road construction for their ngara project. The problem with investing in a down at the heels area is that particular strategy is built on the developer's HOPE alone, which IMHO is not a good basis upon which to invest. Some areas just have a bad "taste" in the mouths of the average Kenyan. If you say for example you are going to put a luxury highrise in the middle of Dandora dumpsite, someone may think you have been smoking some bad bangi mbichi. Wewe wachana na bhangi. Use delusions of granduer as the excuse. Kirinyaga road is prime for redicovery. It is next to a dirty river that can be cleaned up. That part of nairobi river even has a part ... I think it called michuki park. Once the mechanics are kicked out... eventuality this place will blow up. Right now the are has several AirBnB for some studios and they look very busy. @Mugundaman for some so pro property I don't understand why you can't see the current ability and future potential of Kirinyaga road. I can easily see this place becoming a Nairobi "canary wharf" Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Kirinyaga road. I am just knocking the idea of Wukan's idea of luxury bedsitters on Kirinyaga road as it is The guy said he does not do Githurai 44 type typical Kenyan bedsitters but will do the high end New York style massive studio apartments (his idea of a bedsitter). Imagine forking 150k a month for a ka-one room with view like below. Haiwesekani jameni. Now those are the real delusions of grandeur from bangi mbichi! Fix the basic garbage collection, river pollution sewerage and clutter. I hope you are also joking that Kirinyaga rd can become Canary Wharf . Maybe only if the entire street is torn down to crumbs. https://www.nation.co.ke...5564-34tfysz/index.html
@mugundaMan you need to be sleeping more the lack of sleep is self evident. I posted up there about how westlands is transforming into a hub and you told to stop because wazoo cannot afford 300m an acre as if studio/1b apts in westlands cost that much. I have told you the next area of transformation will the ngara area-it has much better commanding view of the city. You still arguing like a recently arrived diaspora. Yet property developers are already on the ground putting their millions to work. You ridiculed my idea of bedsitters yet on kipkabus road (near stima plaza) a developer is topping out on youth apartment must be like 10 floors. That picture you have posted is the proposed link road between Accra road and ngara area under the Eastern missing links road project. There will be 15 mt span bridge over the nairobi river. That means the area is about to open up in a big way which should explain why developers are pushing developments in the area. You will be surprised to see the place where Edermann is putting 34 floor apartments. You keep waiting for the garbage to be cleared it will too late. Honestly where did I say 150K rentals on kirinyaga road(what are you smoking?). But what does Westlands and Ngara have to do with the Kirinyaga rd you claimed you wanted to put high rise bedsitters on? http://wazua.co.ke/forum...px?g=posts&m=845588
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,653
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Quote:Global Credit Rating (GCR) has downgraded the rating for Cytonn Investments citing the company’s curtailed access to commercial bank loans and facilities as well as its model of using short-term debt to fund long-term projects. GCR also cites Cytonn’s short track record and untested ability to execute multiple real estate projects as part of the reason for downgrading. Interestingly the group’s receivable grew much faster than revenue. Overall aggressive rollout of projects and dysfunctional appetite for debt could deteriorate the situation. “The ratings are currently constrained by Cytonn’s curtailed access to capital given limited recourse to bank facilities. As such, group debt is largely comprised of short-dated loans/notes from mezzanine investors….. ” noted the South African based rating agency in a statement on its website. “Cytonn reflects negative earnings-based gearing, on the back of operating losses. As such, a trajectory of robust profitability will have to be achieved to support sound debt to EBITDA and debt serviceability ratios.” the statement goes on. GCR also warns that Cytonn could default its debt obligations mainly because of delays in project execution and unit uptake or unmitigated regulatory, construction and market risks which are impacting the company’s cash management solution dubbed “Cytonn High Yield” Solutions. https://kenyanwallstreet...ty-ratio-worsens-to-86/
Real estate will start chewing up ambitions. Unit uptake is low so kenyans don't want to buy high end in the outskirts. Mido crass has run out of money
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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wukan wrote:Quote:Global Credit Rating (GCR) has downgraded the rating for Cytonn Investments citing the company’s curtailed access to commercial bank loans and facilities as well as its model of using short-term debt to fund long-term projects. GCR also cites Cytonn’s short track record and untested ability to execute multiple real estate projects as part of the reason for downgrading. Interestingly the group’s receivable grew much faster than revenue. Overall aggressive rollout of projects and dysfunctional appetite for debt could deteriorate the situation. “The ratings are currently constrained by Cytonn’s curtailed access to capital given limited recourse to bank facilities. As such, group debt is largely comprised of short-dated loans/notes from mezzanine investors….. ” noted the South African based rating agency in a statement on its website. “Cytonn reflects negative earnings-based gearing, on the back of operating losses. As such, a trajectory of robust profitability will have to be achieved to support sound debt to EBITDA and debt serviceability ratios.” the statement goes on. GCR also warns that Cytonn could default its debt obligations mainly because of delays in project execution and unit uptake or unmitigated regulatory, construction and market risks which are impacting the company’s cash management solution dubbed “Cytonn High Yield” Solutions. https://kenyanwallstreet...ty-ratio-worsens-to-86/
Real estate will start chewing up ambitions. Unit uptake is low so kenyans don't want to buy high end in the outskirts. Mido crass has run out of money Keep hope alive my braddah Illiquid Cytonn is by no stretch of the imagination a representation of the Kenyan real estate sector.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/8/2008 Posts: 947
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MugundaMan wrote:wukan wrote:MugundaMan wrote:tony stark wrote:MugundaMan wrote:wukan wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Na Kirinyaga Rd je? Westlands an acre is going for easily 300 metre and above. The "average non-corrupt Joe" under 45 cannot obviously afford that, so it is a waste of time to preach the glories of Westlands on Wazoo. I was on Kirinyaga road just the other day behind that road the area where the grogan mechanics operate there is some huge building coming up there must be like over 10 floors. I was shocked to see that kind of investment in that area. Some investors are clearly seeing the potential of that area. Further up the road the chinese are doing some serious road construction for their ngara project. The problem with investing in a down at the heels area is that particular strategy is built on the developer's HOPE alone, which IMHO is not a good basis upon which to invest. Some areas just have a bad "taste" in the mouths of the average Kenyan. If you say for example you are going to put a luxury highrise in the middle of Dandora dumpsite, someone may think you have been smoking some bad bangi mbichi. Wewe wachana na bhangi. Use delusions of granduer as the excuse. Kirinyaga road is prime for redicovery. It is next to a dirty river that can be cleaned up. That part of nairobi river even has a part ... I think it called michuki park. Once the mechanics are kicked out... eventuality this place will blow up. Right now the are has several AirBnB for some studios and they look very busy. @Mugundaman for some so pro property I don't understand why you can't see the current ability and future potential of Kirinyaga road. I can easily see this place becoming a Nairobi "canary wharf" Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Kirinyaga road. I am just knocking the idea of Wukan's idea of luxury bedsitters on Kirinyaga road as it is The guy said he does not do Githurai 44 type typical Kenyan bedsitters but will do the high end New York style massive studio apartments (his idea of a bedsitter). Imagine forking 150k a month for a ka-one room with view like below. Haiwesekani jameni. Now those are the real delusions of grandeur from bangi mbichi! Fix the basic garbage collection, river pollution sewerage and clutter. I hope you are also joking that Kirinyaga rd can become Canary Wharf . Maybe only if the entire street is torn down to crumbs. https://www.nation.co.ke...5564-34tfysz/index.html
@mugundaMan you need to be sleeping more the lack of sleep is self evident. I posted up there about how westlands is transforming into a hub and you told to stop because wazoo cannot afford 300m an acre as if studio/1b apts in westlands cost that much. I have told you the next area of transformation will the ngara area-it has much better commanding view of the city. You still arguing like a recently arrived diaspora. Yet property developers are already on the ground putting their millions to work. You ridiculed my idea of bedsitters yet on kipkabus road (near stima plaza) a developer is topping out on youth apartment must be like 10 floors. That picture you have posted is the proposed link road between Accra road and ngara area under the Eastern missing links road project. There will be 15 mt span bridge over the nairobi river. That means the area is about to open up in a big way which should explain why developers are pushing developments in the area. You will be surprised to see the place where Edermann is putting 34 floor apartments. You keep waiting for the garbage to be cleared it will too late. Honestly where did I say 150K rentals on kirinyaga road(what are you smoking?). But what does Westlands and Ngara have to do with the Kirinyaga rd you claimed you wanted to put high rise bedsitters on? http://wazua.co.ke/forum...px?g=posts&m=845588
@Wukan I 100% agree with you! I have seen the studios on Kirinyaga road and was disappointed I missed out in investing. The developments in downtown CBD and Ngara will change the whole area for better. @Mugunda maybe canary wharf was hyperbole but if you think about it this whole area is prime for redevelopment and if you read on Canary Wharf history that place was probably worse than how Kirinyaga road is now.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/4/2018 Posts: 64 Location: Nairobi
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tony stark wrote:MugundaMan wrote:wukan wrote:MugundaMan wrote:tony stark wrote:MugundaMan wrote:wukan wrote:MugundaMan wrote:Na Kirinyaga Rd je? Westlands an acre is going for easily 300 metre and above. The "average non-corrupt Joe" under 45 cannot obviously afford that, so it is a waste of time to preach the glories of Westlands on Wazoo. I was on Kirinyaga road just the other day behind that road the area where the grogan mechanics operate there is some huge building coming up there must be like over 10 floors. I was shocked to see that kind of investment in that area. Some investors are clearly seeing the potential of that area. Further up the road the chinese are doing some serious road construction for their ngara project. The problem with investing in a down at the heels area is that particular strategy is built on the developer's HOPE alone, which IMHO is not a good basis upon which to invest. Some areas just have a bad "taste" in the mouths of the average Kenyan. If you say for example you are going to put a luxury highrise in the middle of Dandora dumpsite, someone may think you have been smoking some bad bangi mbichi. Wewe wachana na bhangi. Use delusions of granduer as the excuse. Kirinyaga road is prime for redicovery. It is next to a dirty river that can be cleaned up. That part of nairobi river even has a part ... I think it called michuki park. Once the mechanics are kicked out... eventuality this place will blow up. Right now the are has several AirBnB for some studios and they look very busy. @Mugundaman for some so pro property I don't understand why you can't see the current ability and future potential of Kirinyaga road. I can easily see this place becoming a Nairobi "canary wharf" Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking Kirinyaga road. I am just knocking the idea of Wukan's idea of luxury bedsitters on Kirinyaga road as it is The guy said he does not do Githurai 44 type typical Kenyan bedsitters but will do the high end New York style massive studio apartments (his idea of a bedsitter). Imagine forking 150k a month for a ka-one room with view like below. Haiwesekani jameni. Now those are the real delusions of grandeur from bangi mbichi! Fix the basic garbage collection, river pollution sewerage and clutter. I hope you are also joking that Kirinyaga rd can become Canary Wharf . Maybe only if the entire street is torn down to crumbs. https://www.nation.co.ke...5564-34tfysz/index.html
@mugundaMan you need to be sleeping more the lack of sleep is self evident. I posted up there about how westlands is transforming into a hub and you told to stop because wazoo cannot afford 300m an acre as if studio/1b apts in westlands cost that much. I have told you the next area of transformation will the ngara area-it has much better commanding view of the city. You still arguing like a recently arrived diaspora. Yet property developers are already on the ground putting their millions to work. You ridiculed my idea of bedsitters yet on kipkabus road (near stima plaza) a developer is topping out on youth apartment must be like 10 floors. That picture you have posted is the proposed link road between Accra road and ngara area under the Eastern missing links road project. There will be 15 mt span bridge over the nairobi river. That means the area is about to open up in a big way which should explain why developers are pushing developments in the area. You will be surprised to see the place where Edermann is putting 34 floor apartments. You keep waiting for the garbage to be cleared it will too late. Honestly where did I say 150K rentals on kirinyaga road(what are you smoking?). But what does Westlands and Ngara have to do with the Kirinyaga rd you claimed you wanted to put high rise bedsitters on? http://wazua.co.ke/forum...px?g=posts&m=845588
@Wukan I 100% agree with you! I have seen the studios on Kirinyaga road and was disappointed I missed out in investing. The developments in downtown CBD and Ngara will change the whole area for better. @Mugunda maybe canary wharf was hyperbole but if you think about it this whole area is prime for redevelopment and if you read on Canary Wharf history that place was probably worse than how Kirinyaga road is now. @Wukan and @Tony Stark(Tony Stark your pseudoname reminds me of Rob Stark of GOT-Game of Thrones) ....you guys have just said it like it is...I also regret not buying one or two units at kirinyaga road.Mingi respect both of you deserve prime cuts of mogoka from my home county and district of Mbeere 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/13/2015 Posts: 1,653
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On May 18, 2009 the originator of this thread @tusker baridi was wondering:- Quote:Does the following make sense to anyone? A typical house in leafy estates such as Lavington,Runda,Karen,and Kitisuru sells for between Ksh. 25 to 50 million. Never mind that in some of these places,there are hardly any roads to talk about. The average income in rent will be between Ksh. 120,000 and 250,000 before paying agents,city council and land rates,and maintenance expenses. An average mortgage of Ksh. 35 million requires monthly repayments of around Ksh. 400,000 and 500,000 for 20yrs,which is more than double the income.
This scenario is repeated across the entire formal housing sector. 3-bedroom units at Langata and South B ask for between Ksh. 5 and 7 million and fetch monthly rent of between Ksh. 25,000 and 40,000 to 45,000 if you are very lucky. The average financing for this requires repayments of about Ksh. 80,000 per month for 20yrs. This is Ksh. 40,000 more that the rent income. Langata is now in the ranges of 20-26m & South B for between 15-22m. Lucky guys who bought at 5-7m.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/4/2018 Posts: 64 Location: Nairobi
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wukan wrote:On May 18, 2009 the originator of this thread @tusker baridi was wondering:- Quote:Does the following make sense to anyone? A typical house in leafy estates such as Lavington,Runda,Karen,and Kitisuru sells for between Ksh. 25 to 50 million. Never mind that in some of these places,there are hardly any roads to talk about. The average income in rent will be between Ksh. 120,000 and 250,000 before paying agents,city council and land rates,and maintenance expenses. An average mortgage of Ksh. 35 million requires monthly repayments of around Ksh. 400,000 and 500,000 for 20yrs,which is more than double the income.
This scenario is repeated across the entire formal housing sector. 3-bedroom units at Langata and South B ask for between Ksh. 5 and 7 million and fetch monthly rent of between Ksh. 25,000 and 40,000 to 45,000 if you are very lucky. The average financing for this requires repayments of about Ksh. 80,000 per month for 20yrs. This is Ksh. 40,000 more that the rent income. Langata is now in the ranges of 20-26m & South B for between 15-22m. Lucky guys who bought at 5-7m. Yeah....these guys are now laughing all the way to the bank or bar to get property in langata or southB these days you really have to cough a lot of money like you said.2008...this was just 10years ago and yet the landscape has changed so much!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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Kate_Mbarire wrote:Langata is now in the ranges of 20-26m & South B for between 15-22m. Lucky guys who bought at 5-7m. Yeah....these guys are now laughing all the way to the bank or bar to get property in langata or southB these days you really have to cough a lot of money like you said.2008...this was just 10years ago and yet the landscape has changed so much! [/quote] My question would be this:Is "past" performance in real estate and indicator of future performance?
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