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Kikuyus, Please Come (Here)
jguru
#81 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:14:12 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
seppuku wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
That new title is even more misleading.

Political correctness? Should revert to the old title since the new one is a confused title that doesn't reflect the content of the thread.


Seconded. What was wrong with the original title?


How many times (third time now) is the title of this thread going to change!? d'oh!

Changing it from the first original title effectively killed this very enlightening discussion. Sad
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
nesta
#82 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:25:36 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi
jguru wrote:
seppuku wrote:
jaggernaut wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
That new title is even more misleading.

Political correctness? Should revert to the old title since the new one is a confused title that doesn't reflect the content of the thread.


Seconded. What was wrong with the original title?


How many times (third time now) is the title of this thread going to change!? d'oh!

Changing it from the first original title effectively killed this very enlightening discussion. Sad

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Okay....back to the original
On Christ Alone
nesta
#83 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:29:29 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
I wonder how many think in their vernacular languages. And once we can begin to teleport easily, language will shrink to computer language.

Teaching the young vernacular would be equal to preparing them to live in Museums. Or rather, to be components of the 'intelligent museum'.

There are those who posit that language changes with the growth of children. I think they are right. Children of the technocity will have no time for 'ibuku'. Once intelligence gets into anything, its name changes. That's why and how children transform language.

We are heading to the crown, not roots.


I agree; but what is the crown? Today, if alliance starts teaching its children finnish, people will say yeahhh! National school indeed. Yet, if it starts teaching Kikuyu, people will say...Eh?

And yet, the number of people speaking finnish is 5Million only..and they use this language to university level










On Christ Alone
tycho
#84 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:29:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
mukiha wrote:
tycho wrote:
I wonder how many think in their vernacular languages. And once we can begin to teleport easily, language will shrink to computer language.

Teaching the young vernacular would be equal to preparing them to live in Museums. Or rather, to be components of the 'intelligent museum'.

There are those who posit that language changes with the growth of children. I think they are right. Children of the technocity will have no time for 'ibuku'. Once intelligence gets into anything, its name changes. That's why and how children transform language.

We are heading to the crown, not roots.


Should we then teach them the digital language of zeroes and ones?



There'll be no more 'teaching'. Right action is advancing in technology to make live relations the teacher, the student and the becoming.

The more we stop teaching, the better we'll become.
nesta
#85 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:31:38 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
I wonder how many think in their vernacular languages. And once we can begin to teleport easily, language will shrink to computer language.

Teaching the young vernacular would be equal to preparing them to live in Museums. Or rather, to be components of the 'intelligent museum'.

There are those who posit that language changes with the growth of children. I think they are right. Children of the technocity will have no time for 'ibuku'. Once intelligence gets into anything, its name changes. That's why and how children transform language.

We are heading to the crown, not roots.



I agree; but what is the crown? Today, if alliance starts teaching its children finnish, people will say yeahhh! National school indeed. Yet, if it starts teaching Kikuyu, people will say...Eh?

And yet, the number of people speaking finnish is 5Million only..and they use this language to university level
On Christ Alone
tycho
#86 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:32:27 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
nesta wrote:
tycho wrote:
I wonder how many think in their vernacular languages. And once we can begin to teleport easily, language will shrink to computer language.

Teaching the young vernacular would be equal to preparing them to live in Museums. Or rather, to be components of the 'intelligent museum'.

There are those who posit that language changes with the growth of children. I think they are right. Children of the technocity will have no time for 'ibuku'. Once intelligence gets into anything, its name changes. That's why and how children transform language.

We are heading to the crown, not roots.


I agree; but what is the crown? Today, if alliance starts teaching its children finnish, people will say yeahhh! National school indeed. Yet, if it starts teaching Kikuyu, people will say...Eh?

And yet, the number of people speaking finnish is 5Million only..and they use this language to university level












The crown? Man God.
tycho
#87 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:34:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Who is a Kikuyu?
Money Whisperer
#88 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:38:19 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/7/2010
Posts: 728
Location: Wazuaville
mukiha wrote:
tycho wrote:
I wonder how many think in their vernacular languages. And once we can begin to teleport easily, language will shrink to computer language.

Teaching the young vernacular would be equal to preparing them to live in Museums. Or rather, to be components of the 'intelligent museum'.

There are those who posit that language changes with the growth of children. I think they are right. Children of the technocity will have no time for 'ibuku'. Once intelligence gets into anything, its name changes. That's why and how children transform language.

We are heading to the crown, not roots.


Should we then teach them the digital language of zeroes and ones?


@Mukiha, yap that is the future; computer language is a language like any other. that's the future we want class one kids to string programs to solve simple things in their lives and design animated cartoons to tell their story then have composition in KCPE where they are asked to design an anime story board about the most memorable day in their lives alama ya dukuduku
@tycho. why do you think technology cannot be done in Kenyan languages. We can a Tharaka browse ngoogu (google) or Gikuyu macaria (search) engine. Any language can interact with technology, there's nothing special with English. the anglo-saxons realized this some time back and translated complex philosophies and scientific concepts from Greek and Latin to English. During the Victorian and Elizabethan age Latin was the langugae of scholars and intellectuals; the elite frowned on Shakespeare's street language (sheng)
"Money never sleeps"
jguru
#89 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:45:40 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
I have a question.

If Gikuyu was derived from Kamba, how then is it that a person who speaks in the tongue cannot easily comprehend a conversation in Kamba, yet that person can comprehend a conversation in other Bantu languages (Meru, Embu, Kisii, Buganda, Kinyarwanda etc)?

German, Afrikaans, Dutch and English have similarities because they belong to the same language family.
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
Wakanyugi
#90 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 2:49:32 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Money Whisperer wrote:
@Wakanyugi, using your own example Kirinyaga/Keenyaa to apply the consonant drift theory, I find that is is the opposite of what you are stating. To me Kamba is a later dialect derived from Gikuyu. How now? let me explain. consonant drift means as you correctly state that pronunciation moves to easier forms; the easier forms are those with less consonants. consonants are harder to pronounce than vowels infact a child in first language acquisition begins with vowels then consonants follow so it follows that between Kirinyaga and Kenyaa that the Kamba did away with the consonants in Kirinyaga. For example a wazua derivative drifts from McReggae to Mareggae, get the drift?

On Gikuyu/Kamba relations, the Gikuyu myth explains the Kamba as athoni (in-laws) through Wamuyu the ninth daughter of Gikuyu



Good example - Kirinyaga/Kenyaa - but I think you have answered your own question.

First to debunk a common error that the name of our country is derived from Gikuyu. It actually comes from the Kamba language, they were the people who named Mt Kenyaa.

Now to consonant drift simplified: as you have noted, 'over time, people tend towards the easiest format of speech possible by dropping 'hard' sounds for softer ones.

In other words, to borrow your metaphor, they tend to speak like children. Kirinyaga becomes Kenyaa, 'r' becomes 'l', 'd' becomes 't' etc. This drift happens over many generations, unless external factors intervene.

The fewer the 'hard' sounds that remain in a language or dialect, the more consonant drift it has undergone. Therefore that language is considered older. Some factors can interfere with this process (eg writing, external enforcement, influence of other languages etc) but we can ignore these factors here.

Kikamba has much fewer 'hard' sounds than Gikuyu and the derivation - as in Kirinyaga/Kenyaa is very easy to show.

Gikuyu is therefore a dialect of Kikamba, not the other way round. The main reason people would find it hard to accept this fact is largely political, not scientific. Remember the saying "Language is a dialect with an army."

If the Kamba people had inherited the political power that the Gikuyu did, this argument would be moot.

And this is just the linguistic evidence. The anthropological as in the example you have given is even more convincing.


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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