the old churches like Catholic, AIC, Presbyterian, Methodist, SDA.... run churches, schools, universities ..... that benefit society directly. The mavunos of this world collect more mbegu than the oldschool churches per capita. Someone show me something practical they do for society besides 'saving' your soul from darkness and promising you never ending wealth, promotion and cures for everything

Both of you have very potent points to ponder on..

...besides, children respond differently. some have to be spanked, others, dialogue works. Know your children and treat them accordingly.

First, when you can't determine at which age a child or a person will be able to make a wise decision, can you be able to stop controlling? How can wisdom be identified in such a case?

If you say that most people aren't intelligent how can you expect beatings to make them more intelligent?

Whipping is about assuaging anger and guilt, not enlightening.

Your response is all positive; the only 'problem' is that your children go to Mavuno.

are you sure that what you've said about mavuno is true?

You'd be whacked, if we were to follow @jguru's advice.

Meaning what? There are other nonconformists? Or that we should have sectarian barriers everywhere?

@tycho, am not sure you are a parent, i am one, and whoever i parent even for a day (read nieces, nephews and younger cousins), there will always be rules of the day, my child goes to a school where the teachers spank them, ofcourse it will not be the same as what i went through but i dont mind it, and i have rules and regulations in my house, the difference between my spanking my child and my mum spanking me is, the child knows beforehand what to expect if she broke any of the rules set, and i like the fact that i dont have to wait to discover a mistake happened, it is reported the moment i walk through the door, it might sound military style but kids need a leash, you can choose to let yours free.
Am way over 18 but i have never sipped alcohol in my mum's house, its a rule and everyone follows it so as long as that child is my responsibility, certain things will happen my way.
My mum once spanked me for something i didnt do, and its only recently she apologized, does that mean i love her less, if anything when one becomes a parent you realize how hard it was for your parents, raising five kids, having a full-time job, rearing chicken, cows and having a mini garden.
Now you want to tell me having lots of money, getting your child a driver to drop her/him at Galleria/TRM with a bundle of money to go hang out with friends, that's showing love to your children?? Thats the freedom?
I cannot tell how bhang looks like at my age, my niece just joined campus and her roommates smoke it, yes times have really changed, who changed them?
I hear 'kwa akina nani wanakubaliwa kufanya hivi na vile' and my response has always been, 'you can go live with akina nani'
I will not expose my child to nonsense in the name of comformity, and this business of wanting to fit in is what makes those kids do stupid things, for instance how do parents dress nowadays?

As for @tycho comparing this to me trying to control my periods is insane, those are kids for heaven's sake. I worry for those generations i pray for my kids, and honestly i encourage people not to have children if one cannot be there for them physically.

I make no such assumption. Granted, there are parents who vent out their frustration to life on their children and as a result, children respond accordingly. This is a different issue.

All in all, parents have a responsibility to discipline their children, and this means you spank them if they don't listen.