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Is Taking a Mortgage the WORST Decision Ever??
Rank: User Joined: 8/15/2013 Posts: 13,237 Location: Vacuum
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WalterWhite wrote:[quote=alma1] The population of the USA has grown from 100 million to over 300 million from 1920. The income average in the USA was $1407 in 1920. Real median household income in the United States in 2010 was $49,445 In 1990 it was $23000. Property crash with less than 6% interest. You can talk about sub prime lending as much as you wish but surely in Kenya, what do you call 25%. That's shylocking with the law. Please tell me the stats for Kenyans. Even 50k is a dream for most Kenyans. Anyone who uses the population as a sign in property values is simply a charlatan. Property values have nothing to do with population. They have everything to do with income.That is why though the population in New York is higher than the population in San Fransico, the prices in real estate are higher in San Fransico are higher. Why? Income That is economics 101. Please read this if you can understand it http://www.forbes.com/si...age-rates/#224534f8378d
Population has nothing to do with pricing. Its effective demand that matters. As long as I see a 75 million shilling half acre in Nairobi yet the yearly income median is less than 50k a month, that's what I call a bubble. @alma, this is what we've been saying. In today's dailies.. Real monthly incomes have stagnated since 2010, a review of employment data reveals. In 2010 the real average monthly income was Sh31,212 but it dropped by one per cent to Sh30,862 in 2014 finds the analysis by Nation Newsplex. Real wage is the income of an individual after taking into consideration the effects of inflation and purchasing power. For example, if you got a three per cent salary rise over the previous year and inflation for the year was two per cent then your real income only rose one per cent. Inversely, if you received a two per cent raise in salary and inflation stood at four per cent then your real income would have shrunk two per cent. Despite a larger economy, Kenya's middle class is hardly growing. The analysis found that going by real income, the share of employees in the formal workforce who fall within the middle class, those presently earning between Sh76,894 and Sh109,324, have increased minimally. In 2014, 10 per cent of all employees in formal employment were in the middle class. The middle class grew by one per cent from 2009 when nine per cent of all workers were middle class. According to economists, a strong middle class provides a stable consumer base that drives productive investment. A vibrant middle class is essential for strong entrepreneurship and innovation and reduces transaction costs. It is also a mainstay of civic engagement that produces better governance, and promotes long-term investments. The review, which was done jointly with the Institute of Economic Affairs, defined the middle class as those earning not just the average income, but also one and two standard deviations above the average income. Only three per cent or about 71,000 employees in the formal sector earn Sh100,000 or more per month. Another 23 per cent or 545,000 employees are paid between Sh50,000 and Sh99,999. The most common wage earned is between Sh30,000 and Sh49,999, by about 664,000, or 28 per cent of all employees. Nearly 20 per cent or 474,000 employees earn from Sh25,000 to Sh29,000 while 16 per cent or about 379,230 employees earn from Sh20,000 to 24,999. Seven per cent or about 166,000 of wage employees earn between Sh15,000-Sh19,000. The formal sector employs about 2.4 million Kenyans or 17 per cent of the labour force. http://www.nation.co.ke/...4/-/wwtwkf/-/index.html[/quote] Yaani definition ya middle class is based on income and not wealth? If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,331 Location: Masada
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Swenani wrote:WalterWhite wrote:alma1 wrote:The population of the USA has grown from 100 million to over 300 million from 1920. The income average in the USA was $1407 in 1920. Real median household income in the United States in 2010 was $49,445 In 1990 it was $23000. Property crash with less than 6% interest. You can talk about sub prime lending as much as you wish but surely in Kenya, what do you call 25%. That's shylocking with the law. Please tell me the stats for Kenyans. Even 50k is a dream for most Kenyans. Anyone who uses the population as a sign in property values is simply a charlatan. Property values have nothing to do with population. They have everything to do with income.That is why though the population in New York is higher than the population in San Fransico, the prices in real estate are higher in San Fransico are higher. Why? Income That is economics 101. Please read this if you can understand it http://www.forbes.com/si...age-rates/#224534f8378d
Population has nothing to do with pricing. Its effective demand that matters. As long as I see a 75 million shilling half acre in Nairobi yet the yearly income median is less than 50k a month, that's what I call a bubble. @alma, this is what we've been saying. In today's dailies.. Real monthly incomes have stagnated since 2010, a review of employment data reveals. In 2010 the real average monthly income was Sh31,212 but it dropped by one per cent to Sh30,862 in 2014 finds the analysis by Nation Newsplex. Real wage is the income of an individual after taking into consideration the effects of inflation and purchasing power. For example, if you got a three per cent salary rise over the previous year and inflation for the year was two per cent then your real income only rose one per cent. Inversely, if you received a two per cent raise in salary and inflation stood at four per cent then your real income would have shrunk two per cent. Despite a larger economy, Kenya's middle class is hardly growing. The analysis found that going by real income, the share of employees in the formal workforce who fall within the middle class, those presently earning between Sh76,894 and Sh109,324, have increased minimally. In 2014, 10 per cent of all employees in formal employment were in the middle class. The middle class grew by one per cent from 2009 when nine per cent of all workers were middle class. According to economists, a strong middle class provides a stable consumer base that drives productive investment. A vibrant middle class is essential for strong entrepreneurship and innovation and reduces transaction costs. It is also a mainstay of civic engagement that produces better governance, and promotes long-term investments. The review, which was done jointly with the Institute of Economic Affairs, defined the middle class as those earning not just the average income, but also one and two standard deviations above the average income. Only three per cent or about 71,000 employees in the formal sector earn Sh100,000 or more per month. Another 23 per cent or 545,000 employees are paid between Sh50,000 and Sh99,999. The most common wage earned is between Sh30,000 and Sh49,999, by about 664,000, or 28 per cent of all employees. Nearly 20 per cent or 474,000 employees earn from Sh25,000 to Sh29,000 while 16 per cent or about 379,230 employees earn from Sh20,000 to 24,999. Seven per cent or about 166,000 of wage employees earn between Sh15,000-Sh19,000. The formal sector employs about 2.4 million Kenyans or 17 per cent of the labour force. http://www.nation.co.ke/...4/-/wwtwkf/-/index.html
Yaani definition ya middle class is based on income and not wealth? The middle class are the EMPLOYED and big spenders. Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,838
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State of the IndustryNever count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,804 Location: NAIROBI
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Things will start taking an upturn from 2018. For now as we head towards election nothing much is expected apart from negative news Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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This is an interesting discussion. But I disagree with the idea that taking a mortgage is a stupid idea. It is not. For many of us it is only way we can access the kind of money (or saving discipline) required to do a 'life purchase' such as a house, land etc What could be stupid though, is tying yourself to the usurious repayment conditions that banks make you sign up to. Even in majuu, where interest rates are low, no one takes a 20 year mortgage intending to pay for 20 years. It is all about accelerated repayment or strategically selling the property to lock in capital gains. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/9/2007 Posts: 13,095
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https://www.facebook.com...posts/10154327567611563
Quote:This weekend I went to visit a friend of mine. His neighbour has put his house on the rental market. It's a beautiful four-bedroomed bungalow, with a two-bedroomed servants' quarters, on a quarter acre of land. He's put it on the market for KSh 120,000 a month. I asked around about how much similar houses are sold for in that neighbourhood, and the prices are in excess of KSh 40 million. Let's take a minute to digest and analyse that. If you paid cash for that house and rented it out, you would make your money back in three hundred and thirty three months. That's almost twenty eight years. House prices are like stocks - you can use a basic price/ rent, which is analogous to a price/ earnings (or PE) ratio to determine whether a house is under- or over-priced. Long-term average is around 16. This particular house is at 27.7. Another calculation. If you convinced your bank to provide you with a mortgage, and you financed the house at 18% (and you'd need to be VERY good friends with your bank manager to get that), you'd be paying KSh 617,000 every month for twenty years. So, in effect, if you took out a mortgage in the hopes of renting the house out, you'd need to shell out almost KSh 400,000 a month more out of your own pocket just to break even. One last thought nugget. People tell you to not take a mortgage and save. However, saving in a medium-to-high inflation environment is the equivalent of borrowing at a high rate. So, if you save to buy (either a ready home or land on which to build), you're effectively borrowing money at around 7-10%, depending on the economic environment. Let me end with a (possibly apocryphal) story before I give you my conclusion. A lady put up a house some years ago in South 'C'. She had put it on the market for KSh 9 million, but she realistically expected 8 million bob for it. One day, someone came to view the house, and made an offer of KSh 12 million. From that point on, the lady refused to entertain any offers below KSh 12 million (which, you'll remember, was 50% above what she was initially expecting). The phantom buyer never turned up again, but as far as the lady was concerned, the house's value was KSh 12 million, and not a penny less. She finally sold it after many moons. Kenya's property market is in a bubble. The bubble is still inflating, and if it doesn't get deflated gently, it will burst very painfully. Real estate prices are almost totally unmoored from their true values, and what's keeping them up there is hope, greed and fear (and a generous helping of dishonest money). Everyone's a property speculator and dealer. All power to them, but when the music stops, there'll be plenty of people left without chairs. When the tide goes out, you'll realise how many people were swimming commando. Take your pick of trite metaphor, but don't say you weren't warned.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,635
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There is a time I used to make quite a bit of money by reading the opinion of so called experts on Wazua and doing just the opposite (then I got caught but that is another story). This thread brings back those memories, especially with some people writing here as if, ex Cathedra, (infallible like the Pope). If mortgages were so bad, can someone explain how this became such a huge global industry? And how it is that a canon of real estate investment is OPM? (other peoples money). Surely they can't all be suckers? I hope young Wazuans don't get taken in and forget that every story is only half a story at best. "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,331 Location: Masada
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Wakanyugi wrote:There is a time I used to make quite a bit of money by reading the opinion of so called experts on Wazua and doing just the opposite (then I got caught but that is another story).
This thread brings back those memories, especially with some people writing here as if, ex Cathedra, (infallible like the Pope).
If mortgages were so bad, can someone explain how this became such a huge global industry? And how it is that a canon of real estate investment is OPM? (other peoples money). Surely they can't all be suckers?
I hope young Wazuans don't get taken in and forget that every story is only half a story at best.
For DECADES Bernard Madoff's PONZI was real and all the people in it thought they were not suckers...but they painfully realized they were actually hapless suckers...the only difference here is/was the time! #Happy hunting. Portfolio: Sold You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2010 Posts: 3,505 Location: Uganda
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/21/2010 Posts: 6,194 Location: nairobi
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newfarer wrote:www.businessdailyafrica.com/Real-estate-slowdown-leaves-banks-with-bad-loans/-/539552/3289432/-/131krs7/-/index.html i consider a NPL invested in a property secure provided the lender keeps on check the duration of default "Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
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