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Is Taking a Mortgage the WORST Decision Ever??
Obi 1 Kanobi
#801 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 8:31:07 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
As @Alma states, this could be a perfect time for vulture investing.

Picking the carcass of the dying property boom for distressed mortgages. Many people are going to default on loans, only this time they will not be able to gain from the rising land prices to still sell at a profit.

Banks will also struggle to hold on to non performing loans backed by stalled projects, they will soon be pushing developers to sell at whichever prices and pay their loans
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Impunity
#802 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:12:46 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,331
Location: Masada
ndiwe84 wrote:
I have been following recent property news in Nairobi and i can't stop wondering what could have happened to nextgen along mombasa road near Eko hotel.

Could it have stalled or was it a victim of imperial bank easy money?

What do wazuans think?


I saw on last Sunday newspare that Next Gen mall will be opening soon and offeres were made for individuals to rent or buy stalls/rooms/sq-feet!
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

Swenani
#803 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:16:35 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Impunity wrote:
ndiwe84 wrote:
I have been following recent property news in Nairobi and i can't stop wondering what could have happened to nextgen along mombasa road near Eko hotel.

Could it have stalled or was it a victim of imperial bank easy money?

What do wazuans think?


I saw on last Sunday newspare that Next Gen mall will be opening soon and offeres were made for individuals to rent or buy stalls/rooms/sq-feet!


It has already been opened(i.e the mall),not sure whether the residential is opened.

ION,Urithi coop society is now selling houses offplan
2 bedroom maisonette(60sqm) in rongai-2.2M
3 bedroom maisonnete(110sqm on 40*60) in Juja-3.95M

These ones look reasonable, though I'm not sure how the house finishing and quality will be
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
Ash Ock
#804 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 11:49:51 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:
As @Alma states, this could be a perfect time for vulture investing.

Picking the carcass of the dying property boom for distressed mortgages. Many people are going to default on loans, only this time they will not be able to gain from the rising land prices to still sell at a profit.

Banks will also struggle to hold on to non performing loans backed by stalled projects, they will soon be pushing developers to sell at whichever prices and pay their loans


In an ideal functioning economy, I'd agree with you.

But in Kenya, what we have is extremely hot money (corruption proceeds) greedily invested in real estate for quick ridiculous appreciation (way above the intrinsic value) with very few mortgages.

When, not if, the thieves fear losing their ill gotten loot when the prices start trickling down (throw in the Asset Recovery Agency which could play a role), the real estate exodus driven by fear is going to be something to behold.

The blame is solely on the government who could have averted with properly implemented policies (i.e. CGT) but since they're the ones very heavily involved in stealing and hiding the proceeds in real estate, there never was a motive to put a check on it.
Sent from my Black Nokia 3310
Mike Ock
#805 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 3:08:05 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 682
This is wazua. Here we are not naive. Let us be real. Real estate boom = money laundering boom.

So as long as the devolved government remains a free-for-all, as long as there is no jail time for corrupt bankers and big company managers, as long as gold scammers, wash wash boys etc are roaming free on our streets, as long as armed robbers are not being arrested, the property/money laundering boom will continue. All these other graphs, sijui financial projections, Hass Consult reports bla bla bla, is mostly just noise from people trying to sound intelligent. Let's be real here on wazua at least.
WalterWhite
#806 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 6:07:55 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 1/3/2016
Posts: 29
Mike Ock wrote:
This is wazua. Here we are not naive. Let us be real. Real estate boom = money laundering boom.

So as long as the devolved government remains a free-for-all, as long as there is no jail time for corrupt bankers and big company managers, as long as gold scammers, wash wash boys etc are roaming free on our streets, as long as armed robbers are not being arrested, the property/money laundering boom will continue. All these other graphs, sijui financial projections, Hass Consult reports bla bla bla, is mostly just noise from people trying to sound intelligent. Let's be real here on wazua at least.


I agree with you. Not only are these corrupt cartels robbing the tax payer blind, they are also disenfranchising Kenyans from their land. They take our money and our land. Rather they had stashed these monies in offshore accounts at least the average mwananchi who works for honest wages would have a piece of the property pie.
alma1
#807 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:03:38 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
WalterWhite wrote:
Mike Ock wrote:
This is wazua. Here we are not naive. Let us be real. Real estate boom = money laundering boom.

So as long as the devolved government remains a free-for-all, as long as there is no jail time for corrupt bankers and big company managers, as long as gold scammers, wash wash boys etc are roaming free on our streets, as long as armed robbers are not being arrested, the property/money laundering boom will continue. All these other graphs, sijui financial projections, Hass Consult reports bla bla bla, is mostly just noise from people trying to sound intelligent. Let's be real here on wazua at least.


I agree with you. Not only are these corrupt cartels robbing the tax payer blind, they are also disenfranchising Kenyans from their land. They take our money and our land. Rather they had stashed these monies in offshore accounts at least the average mwananchi who works for honest wages would have a piece of the property pie.


The problem with the Kenyan property market is very simple. People have not been investing in land to make a profit, they have either been laundering money or sitting on it waiting for it to appreciate in value.

That is not investing.

Investing in land means that investors actually make use of the land. Not hold to wait and sell to another fellow who shall hold and wait, then hold and wait. With the idea that one day some day they shall be billionaires.

I blame that to lack of information. I trully do not see why I should use $10000 to buy an 1/8th of an acre in the bundus with a greenhouse.

While I can buy a piece somewhere in Florida for about the same and if I want a house some 5 million shillings.

Not only will I be assured that my property doesn't have a fake title, I can actually be able to give my kids citizenship in the land of the free and the brave.

Do not fall for this story that property prices don't go down. I'm a registered valuer in Kenya and another place. I can assure you, that unless you are planning on adding value to land, a crash shall surely come. The longer it takes to come, the harder shit shall hit the fan.

I was watching the chama show someone mentioned here. 90% of those chamas are like, we shall buy land then subdivide and sell. Sell to whom, another chama?

That's a pyramid scheme.

Now all chamas have an account at Unaitas or BOA and Rafiki. They are all buying land. Even wazua chama is buying land. Who the hell do you think is going to buy it if everyone is selling?

Kenyans let's not be slow here. The world economies moved on from owning physical assets to leasing someone elses physical assets. Uber, Amazon, Wayfair, Apple, even Microsoft is going into licensing.

You shall own your land but someone else shall lease it and make a billion as you wait for the property values to make you billionaires.

The only people who shall enjoy land are my parents who bought plots for 10k. You the young one had better think about something else. Coz their ain't no way I can pay you 50million for a plot when I can get a ranch in Australia with citizenship for that amount. Or try Canada.

Investing is not about love its about time. When I die you shall bury me one way or another. Or you can take the Prince route and just burn me to ashes and throw them into mogotio river.

Now couple that with the stupidity of getting a mortgage. People people. Americans who get paid every Friday could not be able to finance a mortgage at 7% max. Kweli wewe mkenya wa 80k who do you think you are to finance a mortgage at 20%. Man rent. Man rent. The rest of the money rent the land from the fellows buying PRC land and keep a cow.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Much Know
#808 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:15:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,579
alma1 wrote:
WalterWhite wrote:
Mike Ock wrote:
This is wazua. Here we are not naive. Let us be real. Real estate boom = money laundering boom.

So as long as the devolved government remains a free-for-all, as long as there is no jail time for corrupt bankers and big company managers, as long as gold scammers, wash wash boys etc are roaming free on our streets, as long as armed robbers are not being arrested, the property/money laundering boom will continue. All these other graphs, sijui financial projections, Hass Consult reports bla bla bla, is mostly just noise from people trying to sound intelligent. Let's be real here on wazua at least.


I agree with you. Not only are these corrupt cartels robbing the tax payer blind, they are also disenfranchising Kenyans from their land. They take our money and our land. Rather they had stashed these monies in offshore accounts at least the average mwananchi who works for honest wages would have a piece of the property pie.


The problem with the Kenyan property market is very simple. People have not been investing in land to make a profit, they have either been laundering money or sitting on it waiting for it to appreciate in value.

That is not investing.

Investing in land means that investors actually make use of the land. Not hold to wait and sell to another fellow who shall hold and wait, then hold and wait. With the idea that one day some day they shall be billionaires.

I blame that to lack of information. I trully do not see why I should use $10000 to buy an 1/8th of an acre in the bundus with a greenhouse.

While I can buy a piece somewhere in Florida for about the same and if I want a house some 5 million shillings.

Not only will I be assured that my property doesn't have a fake title, I can actually be able to give my kids citizenship in the land of the free and the brave.

Do not fall for this story that property prices don't go down. I'm a registered valuer in Kenya and another place. I can assure you, that unless you are planning on adding value to land, a crash shall surely come. The longer it takes to come, the harder shit shall hit the fan.

I was watching the chama show someone mentioned here. 90% of those chamas are like, we shall buy land then subdivide and sell. Sell to whom, another chama?

That's a pyramid scheme.

Now all chamas have an account at Unaitas or BOA and Rafiki. They are all buying land. Even wazua chama is buying land. Who the hell do you think is going to buy it if everyone is selling?

Kenyans let's not be slow here. The world economies moved on from owning physical assets to leasing someone elses physical assets. Uber, Amazon, Wayfair, Apple, even Microsoft is going into licensing.

You shall own your land but someone else shall lease it and make a billion as you wait for the property values to make you billionaires.

The only people who shall enjoy land are my parents who bought plots for 10k. You the young one had better think about something else. Coz their ain't no way I can pay you 50million for a plot when I can get a ranch in Australia with citizenship for that amount. Or try Canada.

Investing is not about love its about time. When I die you shall bury me one way or another. Or you can take the Prince route and just burn me to ashes and throw them into mogotio river.

Now couple that with the stupidity of getting a mortgage. People people. Americans who get paid every Friday could not be able to finance a mortgage at 7% max. Kweli wewe mkenya wa 80k who do you think you are to finance a mortgage at 20%. Man rent. Man rent. The rest of the money rent the land from the fellows buying PRC land and keep a cow.

Applause very frank!
Ras Kienyeji Man
wanyee
#809 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:23:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
A simple of projection of Nairobi's growth in terms of size and extension in comparison to a city like Jo'burg or Tokyo will tell you these 1/8 plots will one day be very valuable...then people will wonder why they did not acquire them in the past that is now even if the 3rd generation from now are the ones who will be there in this 'projected growth'
alma1
#810 Posted : Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:40:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Wanyee as much as I hate to say it, please read murchr's posts on the internet or take any business for example.

Business people do not buy land. They rent your house.

Since this is an investor's forum, let me ask you like seriously.

Why should I buy land for lets just say 1 million for an 1/8

Kenyan reasons

I million shillings shall become rental income of 15 1 bedroom houses for 10k each giving me a guaranteed 150k per month.

It sounds very nice until you hear KRA is busy looking for you matapakas and honesly 150k in Nairobi means you rent a house in Embakasi as you wait.

Wait, Wait. for the property appreciation. After all all property values go up.

Please do not compare yourself to your grandfather in 1970. There comes a time when prices flatline. In each and every business. Every business.

Now since we are in 2016. Some mama goes with the same 10k dollars to shaina. She buys a few bed spreads for 500 bob and sells them in facebook for the low low price of 2k. Her cost 1k her profit 1k.

Why the hell do you think you are seeing very many women going to shaina?

Then they come back and buy your kabroti. Not to sell it for a profit today but to hold onto it coz every Kenyan want's land. Why do you think they sell to you. When shit hits the fan she sells the land to you and goes back to shaina. She then sells you the sheeap branket for another of your 2k.

I just don't know what to say.

Whilst the youth in other countries have moved on to understanding the meaning of adding value, the Kenyan youth are still trying to be like our grandparents.

The stories of the young rich in Kenya are there for you to see. Instead of buying land Keroche decided to sell you beer. Now they own a house in Muthaiga. Instead of buying land, Lamudi has convinced each and every property firm in Kenya to pay them minimum 10k per month just to be listed.

Let me ask you with all sincerity. What happened to Tysons, Llyod Masika etc. They have gone so low that they pay a mbeberu every month to list their property. What was so hard for them to do it themselves?

Instead of buying land, you wazuan are busy making Jumia nigerian kids billionaires.

Lamudi, Jumia are making more returns in a day than the land buying Kenyan. Tafakari hayo.

You continue buying land. Unless you are a property management firm that has the skills to maneuver the market, I don't see why you should not be like nice and lovely, go to shaina and get a factory to manufacture.

I'm talking like an old man who has seen this wave pass me by. I really hope the young in Kenya don't waste time on land but waste their time on manufacturing and leverage.

Getting a Kenyan mortgage...means you are one of the most stupid humans in the world. Ati I pay you 25% and you give me 1% interest on my money. let me take it to karumaindo.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

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