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Yaani Eurobond billions are finished?
limanika
#141 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 7:34:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
It's not just 140b. There were funds borrowed domestically to the tune of 250b and these were not for recurrent expenditure. This translates to loss of 1b plus per day. Where is the money or projects
Rollins
#142 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 7:54:51 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/23/2011
Posts: 503
hardwood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jmbada wrote:
limanika wrote:
@ Banda, raos contention was that most of the money is still stashed abroad so actually what he wanted first is records of the transfers. Why rotich rushed to give list of allocation nobody knows. Ndii on the other hand arguing that what is being purported to be eurobond money was domestic borrowing. So let raos question be answered in full before projects are verified. Am particularly very keen what projects govt spent 400b in single year- 200b from eurobond and 250b from domestic borrowing. And really it's not fault finding. I really want govt to confirm that the money was well spent, I voted for them (hence responsible ) and will pay taxes to repay the loan.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. We all need clear accountability for public funds. My dispute is that the former PM clearly knows how govt. fund raising, allocation, disbursement and explanation of expenditure works. If he was really keen to get to the bottom of this, he should have written to every Ministry asking them to publish the reports tabled in Parliament (since they've already accounted for their expenditures). And also, he, and every other private citizen, need to agree that they will not merely say that reports are doctored simply because these reports prove that nothing went wrong. Already, Rotich's report is being rubbished (i.e. no outcome is acceptable other than a report stating that money was stolen). He gave the same reports to both houses of Parliament (albeit in greater detail).


Funds allocation is not evidence of expenditure incurred.Read the PFM Act to know the role of National treasury before blindly advising people to write to respective ministries on how funds were spent


Waiguru is on record saying devolution ministry never received any eurobond money despite rotich saying they were given 45B.

She was just being naive just like some wazuans here. Its like asking Equity to give you a list of all loan applicants who were funded by the Helios money.
Even a BrOKeN clock is right twice a day
murchr
#143 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 8:16:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
masukuma wrote:
My Sniff test reads BULL
$140 billion? kwani ni bangi gani watu wanavuta? let's put it in context...$55 billion is our GDP... i.e. all the money changing hands.. so where is 140Billion almost 3 times ALL THE PRODUCTION OF KENYA or the GDP of some random european country like Hungary... where is this money coming from? who is giving this money? like really? KRA had a target of 1.18 trillion ambao wiliona watashindwa kufikisha and that is roughly 11.8 billion dollars..... $140B is over 12 times their target.... HIZI PESA ZINATOKA WAPI? Like really?



Baba amesema
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
limanika
#144 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 8:19:51 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
Rollins wrote:
hardwood wrote:
Swenani wrote:
jmbada wrote:
limanika wrote:
@ Banda, raos contention was that most of the money is still stashed abroad so actually what he wanted first is records of the transfers. Why rotich rushed to give list of allocation nobody knows. Ndii on the other hand arguing that what is being purported to be eurobond money was domestic borrowing. So let raos question be answered in full before projects are verified. Am particularly very keen what projects govt spent 400b in single year- 200b from eurobond and 250b from domestic borrowing. And really it's not fault finding. I really want govt to confirm that the money was well spent, I voted for them (hence responsible ) and will pay taxes to repay the loan.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. We all need clear accountability for public funds. My dispute is that the former PM clearly knows how govt. fund raising, allocation, disbursement and explanation of expenditure works. If he was really keen to get to the bottom of this, he should have written to every Ministry asking them to publish the reports tabled in Parliament (since they've already accounted for their expenditures). And also, he, and every other private citizen, need to agree that they will not merely say that reports are doctored simply because these reports prove that nothing went wrong. Already, Rotich's report is being rubbished (i.e. no outcome is acceptable other than a report stating that money was stolen). He gave the same reports to both houses of Parliament (albeit in greater detail).


Funds allocation is not evidence of expenditure incurred.Read the PFM Act to know the role of National treasury before blindly advising people to write to respective ministries on how funds were spent


Waiguru is on record saying devolution ministry never received any eurobond money despite rotich saying they were given 45B.

She was just being naive just like some wazuans here. Its like asking Equity to give you a list of all loan applicants who were funded by the Helios money.

Ati the CSs didn't know if money received was eurobond or notLaughing out loudly . Before floating, Govt said this thing was meant to fund infrastructure projects, which projects did they have in mind at the time or was this then an empty statement just meant to give the offer a good name?
masukuma
#145 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 8:21:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
let's get terms right.... what currency are we talking about?
Quote:
EUROs?
DOLLARs?
KENYA SHILLINGs?

I can see how 140 billion of the latter can be 'stolen' but not the 1st two... why? no one would give you that money! that's like 14% of AFRICAs GDP!! like really?
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
murchr
#146 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 8:31:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
masukuma wrote:
let's get terms right.... what currency are we talking about?
Quote:
EUROs?
DOLLARs?
KENYA SHILLINGs?

I can see how 140 billion of the latter can be 'stolen' but not the 1st two... why? no one would give you that money! that's like 14% of AFRICAs GDP!! like really?


$140BN Ala....The money that came in with some tag written Euro bond.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
masukuma
#147 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 8:38:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
wewe wacha it was KES250 billion? KES in bold thats like 2.5 billion USD
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
murchr
#148 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 8:57:01 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
masukuma wrote:
wewe wacha it was KES250 billion? KES in bold thats like 2.5 billion USD


Wazuans are talking about $$ thats why I told them to think about it. Anyway

The amount that was raised was US$ 2BN from which commissions and legal
fees were deducted to arrive at US$ 1,999,052,872.97 which amounts was acknowledged in the Central Bank of Kenya Account held with JP Morgan Chase Bank, New York on 27.06.2014. The Bank Statement from JP Morgan Chase Bank in New York confirms these facts. The Bank Statement and a confirmation in writing have been provided to Public Accounts Committee of the National Assembly and the Senate’s Finance Committee. GOK went back for an additional US$ 750 million tap sale and the bond traded at 5.9-5% net proceeds were $815,684,271 sold at a premium of US$ 65,684,271.00 Tap Sales were credited into Central Bank of Kenya account held with Citibank, New York on 17.12.2014. Hio point5 or 500, 000, 000.00 is what was earned from trading the bond
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Swenani
#149 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 9:39:23 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
murchr wrote:
masukuma wrote:
wewe wacha it was KES250 billion? KES in bold thats like 2.5 billion USD


Wazuans are talking about $$ thats why I told them to think about it. Anyway

The amount that was raised was US$ 2BN from which commissions and legal
fees were deducted to arrive at US$ 1,999,052,872.97 which amounts was acknowledged in the Central Bank of Kenya Account held with JP Morgan Chase Bank, New York on 27.06.2014. The Bank Statement from JP Morgan Chase Bank in New York confirms these facts. The Bank Statement and a confirmation in writing have been provided to Public Accounts Committee of the National Assembly and the Senate’s Finance Committee. GOK went back for an additional US$ 750 million tap sale and the bond traded at 5.9-5% net proceeds were $815,684,271 sold at a premium of US$ 65,684,271.00 Tap Sales were credited into Central Bank of Kenya account held with Citibank, New York on 17.12.2014. Hio point5 or 500, 000, 000.00 is what was earned from trading the bond


Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

Now list the infrastructure projects which were financed by the EURO money
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
murchr
#150 Posted : Monday, December 07, 2015 11:22:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Swenani wrote:
murchr wrote:
masukuma wrote:
wewe wacha it was KES250 billion? KES in bold thats like 2.5 billion USD


Wazuans are talking about $$ thats why I told them to think about it. Anyway

The amount that was raised was US$ 2BN from which commissions and legal
fees were deducted to arrive at US$ 1,999,052,872.97 which amounts was acknowledged in the Central Bank of Kenya Account held with JP Morgan Chase Bank, New York on 27.06.2014. The Bank Statement from JP Morgan Chase Bank in New York confirms these facts. The Bank Statement and a confirmation in writing have been provided to Public Accounts Committee of the National Assembly and the Senate’s Finance Committee. GOK went back for an additional US$ 750 million tap sale and the bond traded at 5.9-5% net proceeds were $815,684,271 sold at a premium of US$ 65,684,271.00 Tap Sales were credited into Central Bank of Kenya account held with Citibank, New York on 17.12.2014. Hio point5 or 500, 000, 000.00 is what was earned from trading the bond


Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

Now list the infrastructure projects which were financed by the EURO money
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.


Refer to Rotich's statement on treasury Website and the standard paper of June 9 2014.

Standard 9 Jun 2014 08:55 wrote:
A successful sovereign issuance will show the level of enthusiasm foreign investors have for Kenya. Therefore, other foreign investments will trail any successful sovereign bond issuance in the international capital markets. For this reason, it is expected that we will attract more foreign capital flow after the issuance of the Eurobond. We need to work hard to grow the economy and continue to rely on our own internally generated revenues. Getting this money does not mean our current economic challenges will go away. Remember the Sh132 billion (if Kenya issues $1.5 billion), we will raise will all not be new money as almost half of this will be used to pay off existing loans. Whether this will bring some relief to the economy or not will also very much depend on how we use the proceeds of the bond. The bond proceeds is already budgeted for in this coming financial year but what exactly will it finance? Well, I read the preliminary prospectus and it is noted in there that the remainder, after the $600m syndicated loans and interest are paid off, will be used for ‘general budgetary purposes, including the funding of infrastructure. This means the money from that bond will go into the national pot to cover part of the Sh400 billion plus deficit. The deficit comes from new spending plans and old spending plans. So although it is said that we are borrowing to fund new infrastructure, in actual fact we are borrowing to meet the revenue gap, which is made up of many things.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Iganamagana
#151 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 10:35:11 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/27/2009
Posts: 1,437
murchr wrote:
Swenani wrote:
murchr wrote:
masukuma wrote:
wewe wacha it was KES250 billion? KES in bold thats like 2.5 billion USD


Wazuans are talking about $$ thats why I told them to think about it. Anyway

The amount that was raised was US$ 2BN from which commissions and legal
fees were deducted to arrive at US$ 1,999,052,872.97 which amounts was acknowledged in the Central Bank of Kenya Account held with JP Morgan Chase Bank, New York on 27.06.2014. The Bank Statement from JP Morgan Chase Bank in New York confirms these facts. The Bank Statement and a confirmation in writing have been provided to Public Accounts Committee of the National Assembly and the Senate’s Finance Committee. GOK went back for an additional US$ 750 million tap sale and the bond traded at 5.9-5% net proceeds were $815,684,271 sold at a premium of US$ 65,684,271.00 Tap Sales were credited into Central Bank of Kenya account held with Citibank, New York on 17.12.2014. Hio point5 or 500, 000, 000.00 is what was earned from trading the bond


Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause Applause

Now list the infrastructure projects which were financed by the EURO money
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.


Refer to Rotich's statement on treasury Website and the standard paper of June 9 2014.

Standard 9 Jun 2014 08:55 wrote:
A successful sovereign issuance will show the level of enthusiasm foreign investors have for Kenya. Therefore, other foreign investments will trail any successful sovereign bond issuance in the international capital markets. For this reason, it is expected that we will attract more foreign capital flow after the issuance of the Eurobond. We need to work hard to grow the economy and continue to rely on our own internally generated revenues. Getting this money does not mean our current economic challenges will go away. Remember the Sh132 billion (if Kenya issues $1.5 billion), we will raise will all not be new money as almost half of this will be used to pay off existing loans. Whether this will bring some relief to the economy or not will also very much depend on how we use the proceeds of the bond. The bond proceeds is already budgeted for in this coming financial year but what exactly will it finance? Well, I read the preliminary prospectus and it is noted in there that the remainder, after the $600m syndicated loans and interest are paid off, will be used for ‘general budgetary purposes, including the funding of infrastructure. This means the money from that bond will go into the national pot to cover part of the Sh400 billion plus deficit. The deficit comes from new spending plans and old spending plans. So although it is said that we are borrowing to fund new infrastructure, in actual fact we are borrowing to meet the revenue gap, which is made up of many things.


Na hii kelele yote ni ya nini? They should have made the noise then (June 2014) not now!
Siringi
#152 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 10:38:31 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/8/2013
Posts: 2,517
The Grand Mullah's take



2.Treasury misclassified the Eurobond proceeds as this was the 1st time in history that bond proceeds were thrown into our financial matrix

3.The misclassification & misunderstanding was brought about by Treasury failure to set the formula for eurobond classification in advance

4.Eurobond money after paying debt & fees was converted into KSH & banked at CBK. It become domestic financing instead of eurobond financing

5. Treasury in the process showed 251b as net domestic funding instead of 110b net domestic funding and 141b Eurobond funding...simple.

6. That is why the Eurobond quarterly budget review showed zero and net domestic funding showed 251b. That 251b contained 141b Eurobond.

7. That is why the budget out turn balances as the Eurobond money is there but just wrongly classified as part of 251b domestic funding....

8. I have shown that no cent of Eurobond money is stolen. Raila and cord are merely playing their traditional politics of slush and burn...

9.So the false & vile propaganda against Rotich &Treasury by Raila & Cord is cheap, false, a mere scaremongering and their usual witch-hunt

10. I challenge Raila & both his loyal and blind followers to impeach my analysis. I challenge them.




"😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
Siringi
#153 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 10:44:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/8/2013
Posts: 2,517
lakini tuwache kutusi babusmile Shame on you Sad eti he had a accident with mathafu

"😖😡KQ makes money for everyone except the shareholder 😏😏 " overheard in Wazua
masukuma
#154 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 10:49:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,822
Location: Nairobi
I think it is productive to query the process... regardless of whether there was money lost or not. Knowing HOW MUCH and HOW IT WAS USED is good for all of us.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Much Know
#155 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 11:07:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,554
.
Meru Holiness
alma1
#156 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 11:15:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
I always want to know more about stuff whenever one of the political thug sides starts using words like

"it's because of raira, lies etc etc

Listen.

The issue is not a cord or raira issue. It's an issue of accounting for the funds. Kwanza when you see the grand mullah pretending to know economics, then you really have to sit down and gather more information.

The last time i heard that it is odm noise, we had NYS looting billions of shillings. Then the usual suspects shouting all over that its because they want to kill a woman....etc....Then the usual lawyers saying things that she's not a suspect, she's a witness

History is a very strange thing. Let's not repeat it.

I don't think I care if its a Raira odomite common complaint. I'd be interested to know, what happened to the money. If well spent, that's good, if not, then expect another thread on xxx must go.

Some things are very simple when your remove goggles during the day.

By the way, what happened to those Mpigs who were earning money when outside parliament? Ama that was another fake story?
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

Much Know
#157 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 12:18:04 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 3,554
alma1 wrote:

The last time i heard that it is odm noise, we had NYS looting billions of shillings

Hi yenu ilikuwa simply gang rape with a lot of insolence. How many times did EACC, Tobiko, Police, CID, President, wazua lawyers etc tell you that waiguru was not under investigation and that she kicked courageously off the investigations of something that is "kawaida", which you disregarded and clung to LIES from sources that are not constitutional and are globally known thieves of maize from starving Kenyans! How this point never got through your head as you "gang raped" her here on wazua puzzles me? How blind, ruthless, evil and "hypnotized" can one be? Mpaka you start going after her kids bwana? What more do you want? Sii you humiliated her and went even after her children in a lynch mob despite the pleadings from all constitutional bodies, you preferred the gossip, she was doing her job well and as a classic odomobot kept whining for her to leave for absolutely NO REASON and she resigned, what more do you want? Soma katiba bwana! Now this expert who innovated up to huduma centers and ifmis has been reduced to a "side dish" and replaced by Mr. Mwangi Kiunjuri..hope you are happy now.
Meru Holiness
limanika
#158 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 12:31:44 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
I hope mullah is right coz I want this thing behind us. But some questions still remain. 1) If the only eurobond money in cbk account is 140b, what happened to 56b (196-140)? 2) if domestic borrowing in 2014/15 was only 110b compared to 201 the previousFY, why didn't interest rates plummet? 3) can we get breakdown how the money was spent?
alma1
#159 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 12:34:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
Much Know wrote:
alma1 wrote:

The last time i heard that it is odm noise, we had NYS looting billions of shillings

Hi yenu ilikuwa simply gang rape with a lot of insolence. How many times did EACC, Tobiko, Police, CID, President, wazua lawyers etc tell you that waiguru was not under investigation and that she kicked courageously off the investigations of something that is "kawaida", which you disregarded and clung to LIES from sources that are not constitutional and are globally known thieves of maize from starving Kenyans! How this point never got through your head as you "gang raped" her here on wazua puzzles me? How blind, ruthless, evil and "hypnotized" can one be? Mpaka you start going after her kids bwana? What more do you want? Sii you humiliated her and went even after her children in a lynch mob despite the pleadings from all constitutional bodies, you preferred the gossip, she was doing her job well and as a classic odomobot kept whining for her to leave for absolutely NO REASON and she resigned, what more do you want? Soma katiba bwana! Now this expert who innovated up to huduma centers and ifmis has been reduced to a "side dish" and replaced by Mr. Mwangi Kiunjuri..hope you are happy now.



I don't know who "you" is refering you above but you do seem like you are not over the fact that she resigned as per her doctor's request.

As for your habit of always lying on this forum you really should stop it.

The EACC said categorically, if you read real information, that Waiguru is a suspect. Actually one of the 18 suspects.

This tabia of yours of lying in public forums and also calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a rapist, is really not a good one.

It would be good for you to reduce it or at least stop peddling it in public. Your kids could be reading what you post.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

alma1
#160 Posted : Tuesday, December 08, 2015 12:36:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/19/2015
Posts: 2,871
Location: hapo
limanika wrote:
I hope mullah is right coz I want this thing behind us. But some questions still remain. 1) If the only eurobond money in cbk account is 140b, what happened to 56b (196-140)? 2) if domestic borrowing in 2014/15 was only 110b compared to 201 the previousFY, why didn't interest rates plummet? 3) can we get breakdown how the money was spent?


Always never believe grand mullah. It's good for your health.

I too don't want to believe this but as I have said earlier, the more the gov't talks, the more questions arise.

So now I'll be reading what the lawyer for arrested politicians says vs what the self styled anti-corruption fellow says.

Then I'll decide on my own.
Thieves are not good people. Tumeelewana?

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