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ARM Cement HY18
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 14,302 Location: nairobi
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sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:the deal wrote:Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together...  1. Only local lenders became shareholders. KQ is still indebted to international lenders like American EXIM Bank. GoK had to issue new guarantees to the international lenders. If KQ doesn't pay, the international lenders will just seize the leased assets (planes) wherever they will be. Easier now since KQ flies to the US. 2. Paunrana and CDC did the right. If a monkey is dead, leave it for the vultures. You might salvage a few bones after the vultures are done. Its the essence of insolvency/ bankruptcy protection laws. GoK should follow suit and let KQ die. KLM was sensible not to pump more capital into a dead monkey. 1. What is a government guarantee? 2. KLM Heathrow additional slot is currently used by KQ as the 'inkind' KLM contributions.. With the JV still being active But today we are here to mourn ARM. Let us give our last respects without drama You are too emotionally in KQ to think straight but just understand that KQ is still in lots of debt and its assets can be siezed by debtors. Despite my emotions you have not said what a government guarantee is all about in this context.. No straight reasoning nation will ground a plane of a foreign state that is backed by a government guarantee.. Kenya has massive reserves in the US Fed.. Kenya as a state is an ongoing concern. Hatuhami! COOP, IMH, KEGN, KQ, MTNU
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/4/2016 Posts: 2,020 Location: Kitale
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According to the ARM HY 18 results,the total assets were worth kshs 40,806,869,000.The total debts were kshs 43,351,496,000 which includes maweni subsidiary debt. So if they have sold assets worth 5 billion,it means the balance is kshs 35,806,869,000. Given the assets are not enough even to clear debts,shareholders here will not get anything. Poleni kwa wale waliadhiriwa. Towards the goal of financial freedom
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,816 Location: NAIROBI
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Ebenyo wrote:According to the ARM HY 18 results,the total assets were worth kshs 40,806,869,000.The total debts were kshs 43,351,496,000 which includes maweni subsidiary debt.
So if they have sold assets worth 5 billion,it means the balance is kshs 35,806,869,000.
Given the assets are not enough even to clear debts,shareholders here will not get anything.
Poleni kwa wale waliadhiriwa. What is the asset base of the tanzania subsidiary and its share of debt Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/4/2016 Posts: 2,020 Location: Kitale
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Ericsson wrote:Ebenyo wrote:According to the ARM HY 18 results,the total assets were worth kshs 40,806,869,000.The total debts were kshs 43,351,496,000 which includes maweni subsidiary debt.
So if they have sold assets worth 5 billion,it means the balance is kshs 35,806,869,000.
Given the assets are not enough even to clear debts,shareholders here will not get anything.
Poleni kwa wale waliadhiriwa. What is the asset base of the tanzania subsidiary and its share of debt In the both results for full year 2017 and HY 18,it was not stated separately.It was generalised together. Its only the maweni subsidiary debt of 21 billion that was disclosed late after HY results that was stated separately. Towards the goal of financial freedom
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:the deal wrote:Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together... 1. Only local lenders became shareholders. KQ is still indebted to international lenders like American EXIM Bank. GoK had to issue new guarantees to the international lenders. If KQ doesn't pay, the international lenders will just seize the leased assets (planes) wherever they will be. Easier now since KQ flies to the US. 2. Paunrana and CDC did the right. If a monkey is dead, leave it for the vultures. You might salvage a few bones after the vultures are done. Its the essence of insolvency/ bankruptcy protection laws. GoK should follow suit and let KQ die. KLM was sensible not to pump more capital into a dead monkey. 1. What is a government guarantee? 2. KLM Heathrow additional slot is currently used by KQ as the 'inkind' KLM contributions.. With the JV still being active But today we are here to mourn ARM. Let us give our last respects without drama You are too emotionally in KQ to think straight but just understand that KQ is still in lots of debt and its assets can be siezed by debtors. Despite my emotions you have not said what a government guarantee is all about in this context.. No straight reasoning nation will ground a plane of a foreign state that is backed by a government guarantee.. Kenya has massive reserves in the US Fed.. Kenya as a state is an ongoing concern. Hatuhami! Many countries' aircrafts have been siezed... Tanzania, Congo, Zimbabwe, Switzerland, Air Afrique. Read these links for yourself... https://www.capitalfm.co...ized-over-unpaid-debts/
https://www.theeastafric...html-62jhg7z/index.html
https://www.google.com/a...f/idAFL5N11T4JL20150923
https://www.telegraph.co...r-grounded-by-debt.html
https://www.news24.com/x...-planes-seized-20011015
Aircrafts are vulnerable because if seized in a foreign jurisdiction, you can't do much. Only option if there is threat of seizure is to park them on tarmac in your local airport. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,367 Location: Nairobi
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sparkly wrote:the deal wrote:Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together... 1. Only local lenders became shareholders. KQ is still indebted to international lenders like American EXIM Bank. GoK had to issue new guarantees to the international lenders. If KQ doesn't pay, the international lenders will just seize the leased assets (planes) wherever they will be. Easier now since KQ flies to the US. 2. Paunrana and CDC did the right. If a monkey is dead, leave it for the vultures. You might salvage a few bones after the vultures are done. Its the essence of insolvency/ bankruptcy protection laws. GoK should follow suit and let KQ die. KLM was sensible not to pump more capital into a dead monkey. The planes can also be seized in London, Paris and Amsterdam given the ties the USA/Boeing/Lessors has with these countries. Add Dubai, Italy and Switzerland to the list! BUT let's discuss KQ in KQ's thread. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 14,302 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:sparkly wrote:the deal wrote:Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together... 1. Only local lenders became shareholders. KQ is still indebted to international lenders like American EXIM Bank. GoK had to issue new guarantees to the international lenders. If KQ doesn't pay, the international lenders will just seize the leased assets (planes) wherever they will be. Easier now since KQ flies to the US. 2. Paunrana and CDC did the right. If a monkey is dead, leave it for the vultures. You might salvage a few bones after the vultures are done. Its the essence of insolvency/ bankruptcy protection laws. GoK should follow suit and let KQ die. KLM was sensible not to pump more capital into a dead monkey. The planes can also be seized in London, Paris and Amsterdam given the ties the USA/Boeing/Lessors has with these countries. Only in theory COOP, IMH, KEGN, KQ, MTNU
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,367 Location: Nairobi
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Ebenyo wrote:Ericsson wrote:Ebenyo wrote:According to the ARM HY 18 results,the total assets were worth kshs 40,806,869,000.The total debts were kshs 43,351,496,000 which includes maweni subsidiary debt.
So if they have sold assets worth 5 billion,it means the balance is kshs 35,806,869,000.
Given the assets are not enough even to clear debts,shareholders here will not get anything.
Poleni kwa wale waliadhiriwa. What is the asset base of the tanzania subsidiary and its share of debt In the both results for full year 2017 and HY 18,it was not stated separately.It was generalised together. Its only the maweni subsidiary debt of 21 billion that was disclosed late after HY results that was stated separately. From this thread and the Centum thread, you have some trouble reconciling "Company" and "Group" structures. Do not worry, it comes with time. Practice. Practice. Practice. And ask questions. May I suggest you download the Annual Report and read the Notes. Not just for ARM but also Centum. Do so for the banks that have significant foreign operations eg I&M and Equity. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 14,302 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:Ebenyo wrote:Ericsson wrote:Ebenyo wrote:According to the ARM HY 18 results,the total assets were worth kshs 40,806,869,000.The total debts were kshs 43,351,496,000 which includes maweni subsidiary debt.
So if they have sold assets worth 5 billion,it means the balance is kshs 35,806,869,000.
Given the assets are not enough even to clear debts,shareholders here will not get anything.
Poleni kwa wale waliadhiriwa. What is the asset base of the tanzania subsidiary and its share of debt In the both results for full year 2017 and HY 18,it was not stated separately.It was generalised together. Its only the maweni subsidiary debt of 21 billion that was disclosed late after HY results that was stated separately. From this thread and the Centum thread, you have some trouble reconciling "Company" and "Group" structures. Do not worry, it comes with time. Practice. Practice. Practice. And ask questions. May I suggest you download the Annual Report and read the Notes. Not just for ARM but also Centum. Do so for the banks that have significant foreign operations eg I&M and Equity. KCB statements will also be helpful COOP, IMH, KEGN, KQ, MTNU
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:sparkly wrote:the deal wrote:Burned beyond recognition....in KQ the lenders are shareholders...They can't pull such a stunt...we are in it together... 1. Only local lenders became shareholders. KQ is still indebted to international lenders like American EXIM Bank. GoK had to issue new guarantees to the international lenders. If KQ doesn't pay, the international lenders will just seize the leased assets (planes) wherever they will be. Easier now since KQ flies to the US. 2. Paunrana and CDC did the right. If a monkey is dead, leave it for the vultures. You might salvage a few bones after the vultures are done. Its the essence of insolvency/ bankruptcy protection laws. GoK should follow suit and let KQ die. KLM was sensible not to pump more capital into a dead monkey. The planes can also be seized in London, Paris and Amsterdam given the ties the USA/Boeing/Lessors has with these countries. Only in theory KQ's most critical assets are the leased airplanes. KQ is struggling to meet lease obligations. As an investor, if you ignore the risk that the planes can be seized (temporarily or permanently) have you really analysed your investment objectively? Life is short. Live passionately.
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