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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:Honestly @masukuma, your idea of action and inaction is confusing. I even suspect it's something to do with ignorance. Let me give an example; when we watch a movie, we don't insist that it should parallel 'reality', but we engage in it and even learn from it. In the same way, religious language shouldn't be conflated with our everyday language. So like the examples you're talking about; shoes, mansions, aren't valid to the extent you're using them for. You're talking as if the meaning you impose on them is the absolute meaning under all circumstances!
In your post I see you saying belief is equal to a psychological reaction like justification or rationalization. But is it? Is belief simply a way of making the world more tolerable? Belief can also be explained by other means that are simpler and more mundane. Belief is a characteristic of intelligence. Rationalization comes after intelligence. Intelligence may even come before language. Even before self consciousness. ask the literalists about your loose and lucid interpretation of scripture. Tell them Moses is a character in literature in the same league as Ali Makame or Noah is a literature figure just as Mkimwa is... then observe their reaction - but before you conduct this experiment I would advice you to keep a safe distance, hide all blunt objects and wear a helmet. All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:Honestly @masukuma, your idea of action and inaction is confusing. I even suspect it's something to do with ignorance. Let me give an example; when we watch a movie, we don't insist that it should parallel 'reality', but we engage in it and even learn from it. In the same way, religious language shouldn't be conflated with our everyday language. So like the examples you're talking about; shoes, mansions, aren't valid to the extent you're using them for. You're talking as if the meaning you impose on them is the absolute meaning under all circumstances!
In your post I see you saying belief is equal to a psychological reaction like justification or rationalization. But is it? Is belief simply a way of making the world more tolerable? Belief can also be explained by other means that are simpler and more mundane. Belief is a characteristic of intelligence. Rationalization comes after intelligence. Intelligence may even come before language. Even before self consciousness. ask the literalists about your loose and lucid interpretation of scripture. Tell them Moses is a character in literature in the same league as Ali Makame or Noah is a literature figure just as Mkimwa is... then observe their reaction - but before you conduct this experiment I would advice you to keep a safe distance, hide all blunt objects and wear a helmet. At least you admit that there are 'literalists'. That means valence. And if there's valence then the evidence you've given is invalid in some cases. Again, if you take like the Bible, some books may be literal others poetic, most are a mixture...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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tycho wrote:masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:Honestly @masukuma, your idea of action and inaction is confusing. I even suspect it's something to do with ignorance. Let me give an example; when we watch a movie, we don't insist that it should parallel 'reality', but we engage in it and even learn from it. In the same way, religious language shouldn't be conflated with our everyday language. So like the examples you're talking about; shoes, mansions, aren't valid to the extent you're using them for. You're talking as if the meaning you impose on them is the absolute meaning under all circumstances!
In your post I see you saying belief is equal to a psychological reaction like justification or rationalization. But is it? Is belief simply a way of making the world more tolerable? Belief can also be explained by other means that are simpler and more mundane. Belief is a characteristic of intelligence. Rationalization comes after intelligence. Intelligence may even come before language. Even before self consciousness. ask the literalists about your loose and lucid interpretation of scripture. Tell them Moses is a character in literature in the same league as Ali Makame or Noah is a literature figure just as Mkimwa is... then observe their reaction - but before you conduct this experiment I would advice you to keep a safe distance, hide all blunt objects and wear a helmet. At least you admit that there are 'literalists'. That means valence. And if there's valence then the evidence you've given is invalid in some cases. Again, if you take like the Bible, some books may be literal others poetic, most are a mixture... Maybe you should run a survey and ask religious folk who on this forum how many are literalists and how many are not... All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:masukuma wrote:tycho wrote:Honestly @masukuma, your idea of action and inaction is confusing. I even suspect it's something to do with ignorance. Let me give an example; when we watch a movie, we don't insist that it should parallel 'reality', but we engage in it and even learn from it. In the same way, religious language shouldn't be conflated with our everyday language. So like the examples you're talking about; shoes, mansions, aren't valid to the extent you're using them for. You're talking as if the meaning you impose on them is the absolute meaning under all circumstances!
In your post I see you saying belief is equal to a psychological reaction like justification or rationalization. But is it? Is belief simply a way of making the world more tolerable? Belief can also be explained by other means that are simpler and more mundane. Belief is a characteristic of intelligence. Rationalization comes after intelligence. Intelligence may even come before language. Even before self consciousness. ask the literalists about your loose and lucid interpretation of scripture. Tell them Moses is a character in literature in the same league as Ali Makame or Noah is a literature figure just as Mkimwa is... then observe their reaction - but before you conduct this experiment I would advice you to keep a safe distance, hide all blunt objects and wear a helmet. At least you admit that there are 'literalists'. That means valence. And if there's valence then the evidence you've given is invalid in some cases. Again, if you take like the Bible, some books may be literal others poetic, most are a mixture... Maybe you should run a survey and ask religious folk who on this forum how many are literalists and how many are not... I could do that. But there's something more. I could take up the responsibility of understanding the Bible, or any religious text for that matter in the best way possible. Like conduct a fair investigation for myself. For example, it may be good for one to interrogate as many theological schools of thought and figure out what's what.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/17/2010 Posts: 572
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tycho wrote:What's a cognitive bias? How about 'thoughtful reasoning'? Can 'cognitive bias' and 'thoughtful reason' coexist? When I think about these expressions, what meaning do I impose on them? Or do they have inherent meaning? this may be deemed 'thoughtful reasoning'I'm afraid we seem to take so much for granted. while this is informed by a 'cognitive bias' 'One headache for famous medieval holy people was that someone might murder you to acquire your body parts for the relics trade'
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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vky wrote:tycho wrote:What's a cognitive bias? How about 'thoughtful reasoning'? Can 'cognitive bias' and 'thoughtful reason' coexist? When I think about these expressions, what meaning do I impose on them? Or do they have inherent meaning? this may be deemed 'thoughtful reasoning'I'm afraid we seem to take so much for granted. while this is informed by a 'cognitive bias' Vky decrees.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/10/2008 Posts: 9,131 Location: Kanjo
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Cornelius Vanderbilt wrote:The skies are God's billboard.   The hand of 'God' as it appeared in Portugal this week. Maybe @mathukuma needs to witness one of these events just as Saul did. Quote:Jesus told his disciples “stop doubting and believe. Blessed are those who believe, and yet have not seen.” i.am.back!!!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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I believe advances in philosophy of mind and AI will help us and our descendants get answers even on the identity of God and belief. By mapping out how our minds work and testing these ideas practically we'll be able to use familiar tools like logic to figure out the questions that seem to disturb as now, much like @creativekaggs 'Einstein puzzles' demanded logic. http://www.theguardian.c...intelligence-intuititive
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/4/2015 Posts: 604
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tycho wrote:I believe advances in philosophy of mind and AI will help us and our descendants get answers even on the identity of God and belief. By mapping out how our minds work and testing these ideas practically we'll be able to use familiar tools like logic to figure out the questions that seem to disturb as now, much like @creativekaggs 'Einstein puzzles' demanded logic. http://www.theguardian.c...ntelligence-intuititive The A.I. anxietyThe mind is more symbolic than it is logical. Logic is a tool but also a symbol of security. Why do we need to figure anything out and why does it disturb us? We can rationalize it any way we want or believe anything we want. There are numerous answers to numerous questions of our own making but what is evident is the need or desire to respond to a question. The question is,what is the question?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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¿ wrote:tycho wrote:I believe advances in philosophy of mind and AI will help us and our descendants get answers even on the identity of God and belief. By mapping out how our minds work and testing these ideas practically we'll be able to use familiar tools like logic to figure out the questions that seem to disturb as now, much like @creativekaggs 'Einstein puzzles' demanded logic. http://www.theguardian.c...ntelligence-intuititive The A.I. anxietyThe mind is more symbolic than it is logical. Logic is a tool but also a symbol of security. Why do we need to figure anything out and why does it disturb us? We can rationalize it any way we want or believe anything we want. There are numerous answers to numerous questions of our own making but what is evident is the need or desire to respond to a question. The question is,what is the question? Logic is the manipulation of symbols according to prescribed rules or patterns. The mind is the manipulating space. The question to be asked is a function of intelligence. That is, intelligence determines the question.
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