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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/4/2008 Posts: 2,849 Location: Rupi
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maka wrote:jaggernaut wrote:maka wrote:Shoot them dead kabisa...nkt Sad that one can make such an unfortunate comment to support extra judicial killings. Why not arrest the young men, who had obeyed all police instructions and were lying unarmed on the ground? (Don't be fooled by the pistols displayed by the police coz they are known to carry bangi and guns to plant on suspected criminals.) Next time it could happen to your teenage son as he rides in your car with his school mates, then we will read in the news that he was a most wanted criminal. RINKQuote:The pump attendant, Mr Clement Kibet, told Nation.co.ke that after fuelling the car, the men gave him the cash but immediately three cars drove into the station.
The officers took position and ordered the occupants to get out of the car and put everything they had on the ground. Though the Gigiri police boss said there was an exchange of fire, eyewitnesses said that the suspects were shot while lying down. Were they planning to cook with the pistols?Even that shooting is a worthy form of death for these fellows,I'd rather they have their eyes gouged out and then they are fed to crocodiles or lions... LOL! Hata kaa ngumu said risasi sio mawe. Let them get killed, they may have killed many, were probably going to kill many more so their deaths will save lives. As long as they were real thugs and not mistaken identity ni sawa tu. They were not going to play a round of golf with those pistols. Lord, thank you!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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Euge wrote:maka wrote:jaggernaut wrote:maka wrote:Shoot them dead kabisa...nkt Sad that one can make such an unfortunate comment to support extra judicial killings. Why not arrest the young men, who had obeyed all police instructions and were lying unarmed on the ground? (Don't be fooled by the pistols displayed by the police coz they are known to carry bangi and guns to plant on suspected criminals.) Next time it could happen to your teenage son as he rides in your car with his school mates, then we will read in the news that he was a most wanted criminal. RINKQuote:The pump attendant, Mr Clement Kibet, told Nation.co.ke that after fuelling the car, the men gave him the cash but immediately three cars drove into the station.
The officers took position and ordered the occupants to get out of the car and put everything they had on the ground. Though the Gigiri police boss said there was an exchange of fire, eyewitnesses said that the suspects were shot while lying down. Were they planning to cook with the pistols?Even that shooting is a worthy form of death for these fellows,I'd rather they have their eyes gouged out and then they are fed to crocodiles or lions... LOL! Hata kaa ngumu said risasi sio mawe. Let them get killed, they may have killed many, were probably going to kill many more so their deaths will save lives. As long as they were real thugs and not mistaken identity ni sawa tu. They were not going to play a round of golf with those pistols. That we will never know.....since eyewitnesses never saw any of the young men with guns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Euge wrote:maka wrote:jaggernaut wrote:maka wrote:Shoot them dead kabisa...nkt Sad that one can make such an unfortunate comment to support extra judicial killings. Why not arrest the young men, who had obeyed all police instructions and were lying unarmed on the ground? (Don't be fooled by the pistols displayed by the police coz they are known to carry bangi and guns to plant on suspected criminals.) Next time it could happen to your teenage son as he rides in your car with his school mates, then we will read in the news that he was a most wanted criminal. RINKQuote:The pump attendant, Mr Clement Kibet, told Nation.co.ke that after fuelling the car, the men gave him the cash but immediately three cars drove into the station.
The officers took position and ordered the occupants to get out of the car and put everything they had on the ground. Though the Gigiri police boss said there was an exchange of fire, eyewitnesses said that the suspects were shot while lying down. Were they planning to cook with the pistols?Even that shooting is a worthy form of death for these fellows,I'd rather they have their eyes gouged out and then they are fed to crocodiles or lions... LOL! Hata kaa ngumu said risasi sio mawe. Let them get killed, they may have killed many, were probably going to kill many more so their deaths will save lives. As long as they were real thugs and not mistaken identity ni sawa tu. They were not going to play a round of golf with those pistols. I don't have any figures, but given my observations the total number of people killed by thugs is much less than that of the number of suspects killed by police. Thieves rarely shoot their victims and the reaction to them involves great exaggeration and could even be a weakening of law and order by law enforcers and citizens. There's a big cover up behind these incidences. Like, I have heard that families of those gunned down have to pay for bullets spent, and that there instances where police collude with criminals. There may be vested interests in these actions and sentiments.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/4/2008 Posts: 2,849 Location: Rupi
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jaggernaut wrote:Euge wrote:maka wrote:jaggernaut wrote:maka wrote:Shoot them dead kabisa...nkt Sad that one can make such an unfortunate comment to support extra judicial killings. Why not arrest the young men, who had obeyed all police instructions and were lying unarmed on the ground? (Don't be fooled by the pistols displayed by the police coz they are known to carry bangi and guns to plant on suspected criminals.) Next time it could happen to your teenage son as he rides in your car with his school mates, then we will read in the news that he was a most wanted criminal. RINKQuote:The pump attendant, Mr Clement Kibet, told Nation.co.ke that after fuelling the car, the men gave him the cash but immediately three cars drove into the station.
The officers took position and ordered the occupants to get out of the car and put everything they had on the ground. Though the Gigiri police boss said there was an exchange of fire, eyewitnesses said that the suspects were shot while lying down. Were they planning to cook with the pistols?Even that shooting is a worthy form of death for these fellows,I'd rather they have their eyes gouged out and then they are fed to crocodiles or lions... LOL! Hata kaa ngumu said risasi sio mawe. Let them get killed, they may have killed many, were probably going to kill many more so their deaths will save lives. As long as they were real thugs and not mistaken identity ni sawa tu. They were not going to play a round of golf with those pistols. That we will never know.....since eyewitnesses never saw any of the young men with guns. I saw photos from the scent with pistols, bullets , police radio etc... i know our police usually introduce such items on victims but I wonder if they would have done that in broad daylight and in such an open place. I stand collected if i do not seem to understand what our police are capable of doing Lord, thank you!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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tycho wrote:Euge wrote:maka wrote:jaggernaut wrote:maka wrote:Shoot them dead kabisa...nkt Sad that one can make such an unfortunate comment to support extra judicial killings. Why not arrest the young men, who had obeyed all police instructions and were lying unarmed on the ground? (Don't be fooled by the pistols displayed by the police coz they are known to carry bangi and guns to plant on suspected criminals.) Next time it could happen to your teenage son as he rides in your car with his school mates, then we will read in the news that he was a most wanted criminal. RINKQuote:The pump attendant, Mr Clement Kibet, told Nation.co.ke that after fuelling the car, the men gave him the cash but immediately three cars drove into the station.
The officers took position and ordered the occupants to get out of the car and put everything they had on the ground. Though the Gigiri police boss said there was an exchange of fire, eyewitnesses said that the suspects were shot while lying down. Were they planning to cook with the pistols?Even that shooting is a worthy form of death for these fellows,I'd rather they have their eyes gouged out and then they are fed to crocodiles or lions... LOL! Hata kaa ngumu said risasi sio mawe. Let them get killed, they may have killed many, were probably going to kill many more so their deaths will save lives. As long as they were real thugs and not mistaken identity ni sawa tu. They were not going to play a round of golf with those pistols. I don't have any figures, but given my observations the total number of people killed by thugs is much less than that of the number of suspects killed by police. Thieves rarely shoot their victims and the reaction to them involves great exaggeration and could even be a weakening of law and order by law enforcers and citizens. There's a big cover up behind these incidences. Like, I have heard that families of those gunned down have to pay for bullets spent, and that there instances where police collude with criminals. There may be vested interests in these actions and sentiments. True. Here are the figures:Over 60 per cent of about 1,800 people killed in gun-related incidents in the last five years were shot by police, a new report has revealed. This means that you are more likely to be shot dead by a police officer than a robber. Thugs killed only 13.9 per cent (135) of the 1,873 victims between 2009 and last year, says the report by Independent Medico Legal unit (IMLU). Read more at: http://www.standardmedia...e/?articleID=2000126139
and:Kenyans are five times more likely to be shot dead by police than by armed robbers, according to a new report that highlights failures in British attempts to help reform the country's police force. Police shot close to 70 per cent of the 1,868 people who died from gun wounds in Kenya in the last five years. The next deadliest perpetrators, armed robbers, were responsible for only 14 per cent of the deaths. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/kenya/10941227/Kenyans-five-times-more-likely-to-be-shot-dead-by-police-than-by-criminals.html
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
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I hate thugs and wish them nothing but slow and painful death. But knowing what our police force is capable of, extra-judicial killings send a chill down my spine.
Just remember that after Dr. Muiruri, son of former gatundu mp, was shot by an ocpd, the entry in the OB was that police had shot and killed a dangerous mungiki suspect. It would have ended there had muiruri been an ordinary citizen.
Flashback 1997,there was a fierce gun battle in the CBD. The nation carried a picture of one of the 'thugs' bleeding on the back of a landrover but very much alive. Turns out the guy was a senior marketing mgr with cocacola who was caught up in the crossfire. His colleagues and relatives rushed to central police to clear the matter. Too late, the cops had pumped three more bullets on the guy's head afterwards.
Israel does it best and they have a guiding principle.
"The most dishonourable of actions, must be taken by the most honourable of men"
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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FRM2011 wrote:I hate thugs and wish them nothing but slow and painful death. But knowing what our police force is capable of, extra-judicial killings send a chill down my spine.
Just remember that after Dr. Muiruri, son of former gatundu mp, was shot by an ocpd, the entry in the OB was that police had shot and killed a dangerous mungiki suspect. It would have ended there had muiruri been an ordinary citizen.
Flashback 1997,there was a fierce gun battle in the CBD. The nation carried a picture of one of the 'thugs' bleeding on the back of a landrover but very much alive. Turns out the guy was a senior marketing mgr with cocacola who was caught up in the crossfire. His colleagues and relatives rushed to central police to clear the matter. Too late, the cops had pumped three more bullets on the guy's head afterwards.
Israel does it best and they have a guiding principle.
"The most dishonourable of actions, must be taken by the most honourable of men" Implement capital punishment! There is saving of life, in taking of life (I MEAN GUILTY LIVE. PLEASE DON'T MISQUOTE ME). Since people are afraid to die or be executed, it would be enough deterrent for a person to learn that if he or she has robbed, slain a person, they will be disdained to death. So in setting up this equal punishment, many lives are saved, and sorrow and sadness for missing loved ones is eliminated. " And there is (a saving of) life for you in al-Qisas, the law of equal penalty (killer to be equally killed); O you men of understanding, that you may restrain yourselves." Qur’an, 2:180.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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jaggernaut wrote:tycho wrote:Euge wrote:maka wrote:jaggernaut wrote:maka wrote:Shoot them dead kabisa...nkt Sad that one can make such an unfortunate comment to support extra judicial killings. Why not arrest the young men, who had obeyed all police instructions and were lying unarmed on the ground? (Don't be fooled by the pistols displayed by the police coz they are known to carry bangi and guns to plant on suspected criminals.) Next time it could happen to your teenage son as he rides in your car with his school mates, then we will read in the news that he was a most wanted criminal. RINKQuote:The pump attendant, Mr Clement Kibet, told Nation.co.ke that after fuelling the car, the men gave him the cash but immediately three cars drove into the station.
The officers took position and ordered the occupants to get out of the car and put everything they had on the ground. Though the Gigiri police boss said there was an exchange of fire, eyewitnesses said that the suspects were shot while lying down. Were they planning to cook with the pistols?Even that shooting is a worthy form of death for these fellows,I'd rather they have their eyes gouged out and then they are fed to crocodiles or lions... LOL! Hata kaa ngumu said risasi sio mawe. Let them get killed, they may have killed many, were probably going to kill many more so their deaths will save lives. As long as they were real thugs and not mistaken identity ni sawa tu. They were not going to play a round of golf with those pistols. I don't have any figures, but given my observations the total number of people killed by thugs is much less than that of the number of suspects killed by police. Thieves rarely shoot their victims and the reaction to them involves great exaggeration and could even be a weakening of law and order by law enforcers and citizens. There's a big cover up behind these incidences. Like, I have heard that families of those gunned down have to pay for bullets spent, and that there instances where police collude with criminals. There may be vested interests in these actions and sentiments. True. Here are the figures:Over 60 per cent of about 1,800 people killed in gun-related incidents in the last five years were shot by police, a new report has revealed. This means that you are more likely to be shot dead by a police officer than a robber. Thugs killed only 13.9 per cent (135) of the 1,873 victims between 2009 and last year, says the report by Independent Medico Legal unit (IMLU). Read more at: http://www.standardmedia...e/?articleID=2000126139
and:Kenyans are five times more likely to be shot dead by police than by armed robbers, according to a new report that highlights failures in British attempts to help reform the country's police force. Police shot close to 70 per cent of the 1,868 people who died from gun wounds in Kenya in the last five years. The next deadliest perpetrators, armed robbers, were responsible for only 14 per cent of the deaths. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/kenya/10941227/Kenyans-five-times-more-likely-to-be-shot-dead-by-police-than-by-criminals.html Thank you @jaggernaut. Now the question is, what's the explanation for these killings, and the sentiments of support?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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FRM2011 wrote:I hate thugs and wish them nothing but slow and painful death. But knowing what our police force is capable of, extra-judicial killings send a chill down my spine.
Just remember that after Dr. Muiruri, son of former gatundu mp, was shot by an ocpd, the entry in the OB was that police had shot and killed a dangerous mungiki suspect. It would have ended there had muiruri been an ordinary citizen.
Flashback 1997,there was a fierce gun battle in the CBD. The nation carried a picture of one of the 'thugs' bleeding on the back of a landrover but very much alive. Turns out the guy was a senior marketing mgr with cocacola who was caught up in the crossfire. His colleagues and relatives rushed to central police to clear the matter. Too late, the cops had pumped three more bullets on the guy's head afterwards.
Israel does it best and they have a guiding principle.
"The most dishonourable of actions, must be taken by the most honourable of men" Kindly, give us an example of an honorable man doing a justified but dishonorable act. And differentiate it from the youth who's trying to find meaning and meet his needs through robbery.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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So since thugs have killed less we need to let them roam the streets to kill more in order to be at par with the police. By the way police are allowed to kill under some circumstances ........ In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/23/2010 Posts: 1,229
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interesting double standard we have regarding treatment of theft.
blue collar crime - I am comfortable prescribing shoot to kill orders for this category of thugs since I do not want a direct threat to my person. (I know, typical Kenyan, only cares when you hit me where it hurts). If he's pulling off the Robin Hood thing of redistributing resources from rich corrupt people maybe I wouldn't mind him so much.
white collar crime involves theft on a much grander scale and has contributed to the state of the country's economy. When someone steals from public coffers, we get angry, discuss the event and move on without thinking the individuals behind it deserve capital punishment because there was no threat to a person. Thing is, these are the crimes that leave the country broke and contribute to the unemployment/ underemployment rate and rise in blue collar crime
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Angelica _ann wrote:So since thugs have killed less we need to let them room the streets to kill more in order to be at par with the police.
By the way police are allowed to kill under some circumstances ........ Reasonable force is something that's part of the law. So I will ask you in other terms, why is it reasonable for police to kill armed robbers and suspects even when they don't resist arrest?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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For Sport wrote:interesting double standard we have regarding treatment of theft.
blue collar crime - I am comfortable prescribing shoot to kill orders for this category of thugs since I do not want a direct threat to my person. (I know, typical Kenyan, only cares when you hit me where it hurts). If he's pulling off the Robin Hood thing of redistributing resources from rich corrupt people maybe I wouldn't mind him so much.
white collar crime involves theft on a much grander scale and has contributed to the state of the country's economy. When someone steals from public coffers, we get angry, discuss the event and move on without thinking the individuals behind it deserve capital punishment because there was no threat to a person. Thing is, these are the crimes that leave the country broke and contribute to the unemployment/ underemployment rate and rise in blue collar crime Spot on!  Those who steal from public coffers, the corrupt rich men, our leaders... who in turn arm twist the judiciary and the law enforcement, are the one who are " GUILTY OF NOT IDENTIFYING THE GUILTY"   I admire China. Even a minister is jailed for corruption 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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AlphDoti wrote:For Sport wrote:interesting double standard we have regarding treatment of theft.
blue collar crime - I am comfortable prescribing shoot to kill orders for this category of thugs since I do not want a direct threat to my person. (I know, typical Kenyan, only cares when you hit me where it hurts). If he's pulling off the Robin Hood thing of redistributing resources from rich corrupt people maybe I wouldn't mind him so much.
white collar crime involves theft on a much grander scale and has contributed to the state of the country's economy. When someone steals from public coffers, we get angry, discuss the event and move on without thinking the individuals behind it deserve capital punishment because there was no threat to a person. Thing is, these are the crimes that leave the country broke and contribute to the unemployment/ underemployment rate and rise in blue collar crime Spot on! Those who steal from public coffers, the corrupt rich men, our leaders... who in turn arm twist the judiciary and the law enforcement, are the one who are " GUILTY OF NOT IDENTIFYING THE GUILTY" I admire China. Even a minister is jailed for corruption I think you're being simplistic @AlphDoti just to support a part of your belief system. Consider this http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_China
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/4/2008 Posts: 2,849 Location: Rupi
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tycho wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:So since thugs have killed less we need to let them room the streets to kill more in order to be at par with the police.
By the way police are allowed to kill under some circumstances ........ Reasonable force is something that's part of the law. So I will ask you in other terms, why is it reasonable for police to kill armed robbers and suspects even when they don't resist arrest? Because they will possibly buy their freedom and continue with thier robbing/killing spree. Remember a mom and 2 daughters that were killed by a suspect coz she gave evidence against him? He had threatened to kill her if he got bail and he went right ahead and did it. Lord, thank you!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/21/2012 Posts: 1,739
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tycho wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:So since thugs have killed less we need to let them room the streets to kill more in order to be at par with the police.
By the way police are allowed to kill under some circumstances ........ Reasonable force is something that's part of the law. So I will ask you in other terms, why is it reasonable for police to kill armed robbers and suspects even when they don't resist arrest? ...Because Once apprehended and taken to Court, they (Thugs) will bribe, bail their way out and are back in the streets terrorizing citizens again..and the cycle continues. So why spare them. As someone said, as far as it was not mistaken identity, they should die a painful death - Probably have their balls crushed. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God..
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Euge wrote:tycho wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:So since thugs have killed less we need to let them room the streets to kill more in order to be at par with the police.
By the way police are allowed to kill under some circumstances ........ Reasonable force is something that's part of the law. So I will ask you in other terms, why is it reasonable for police to kill armed robbers and suspects even when they don't resist arrest? Because they will possibly buy their freedom and continue with thier robbing/killing spree. Remember a mom and 2 daughters that were killed by a suspect coz she gave evidence against him? He had threatened to kill her if he got bail and he went right ahead and did it. So extra judicial killings are reasonable before the law because the laws and institutions are incapable of upholding the law?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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tycho wrote:Euge wrote:tycho wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:So since thugs have killed less we need to let them room the streets to kill more in order to be at par with the police.
By the way police are allowed to kill under some circumstances ........ Reasonable force is something that's part of the law. So I will ask you in other terms, why is it reasonable for police to kill armed robbers and suspects even when they don't resist arrest? Because they will possibly buy their freedom and continue with thier robbing/killing spree. Remember a mom and 2 daughters that were killed by a suspect coz she gave evidence against him? He had threatened to kill her if he got bail and he went right ahead and did it. So extra judicial killings are reasonable before the law because the laws and institutions are incapable of upholding the law? I'd say, in certain circumstances, like the cases of terrorism suspects, yes it is reasonable and necessary.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/9/2008 Posts: 5,389
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Isn't this the same forum where members have been frothing in the mouth condemning the cold-blood killing of a young man by police in Missouri, US?
Anyway i have no problem with our police fighting crime within the law, but many times they seem to be 'experts in reading peoples' minds since they always gun down the suspects "when they are planning to commit a crime". Rarely do they shoot a criminal while he's committing a crime or after he has committed a crime, it's always before. This leaves very many innocent Kenyans very vulnerable to extra judicial killings.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/7/2012 Posts: 11,908
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Wendz wrote:tycho wrote:Euge wrote:tycho wrote:Angelica _ann wrote:So since thugs have killed less we need to let them room the streets to kill more in order to be at par with the police.
By the way police are allowed to kill under some circumstances ........ Reasonable force is something that's part of the law. So I will ask you in other terms, why is it reasonable for police to kill armed robbers and suspects even when they don't resist arrest? Because they will possibly buy their freedom and continue with thier robbing/killing spree. Remember a mom and 2 daughters that were killed by a suspect coz she gave evidence against him? He had threatened to kill her if he got bail and he went right ahead and did it. So extra judicial killings are reasonable before the law because the laws and institutions are incapable of upholding the law? I'd say, in certain circumstances, like the cases of terrorism suspects, yes it is reasonable and necessary. Yes and that is why we have mob 'justice' In the business world, everyone is paid in two coins - cash and experience. Take the experience first; the cash will come later - H Geneen
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