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Kikuyus, Please Come (Here)
simonkabz
#61 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:08:30 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Wakanyugi wrote:
simonkabz wrote:


If you want to learn Qyuk, read this post SLOWLY. A perfect summery.


Thimeoni: you are the one who needs to read the post again, very slowly. It is full of errors. For instance, the 'b'as in baba is not equivalent to 'f'- fafa. Never ever.


From where I cometh, and the majority of gikuyus that I know, and from my elementary classes, that is how we pronounce. Siringi n the clown so far have given good gikuyu lessons.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
seppuku
#62 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:09:05 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/11/2010
Posts: 918
Wakanyugi wrote:
The Clown wrote:
I decided to post on this thread when I saw @seppuku parading his ignorance in public.

FYI there IS a Gikuyu alphabet. Just as there are English, French, Mandarin, Maragoli and Nandi ones.

I am one of those who studied in a native tongue in primary school so I happen to know a little about the language.


Forgive my bluntness, but you are the one parading your ignorance, my friend.

The Gikuyu language is written using the Latin alphabet, as are many other languages.

If you studied language as you claim, I am sure you would know that what is under discussion here is not the alphabet but the orthography of the Gikuyu language.

I believe the orthography of Gikuyu was set by Italian Missionaries, and later revised by the Irish and Scottish priests - at least I vaguely recall either Cannon Cagnolo or Whitely writing as much.

This could explain how we came to inherit some Mediterranean vowels and consonants, like the bilabial fricative, 'b' in 'baba' - similar to the Spanish 'v' sound in say, Valencia, instead of the more common 'labial dental 'f'.

Another example is the 'w' vowel sound as in Wainaina. If the French had done the Gikuyu orthography this would be written Ouainanina.

Similarly nasal sounds like 'n' in Njeri, 'm' in Mbuthia, 'ny' as in Nyambura, the soft 'ng' in Ng'ang'a (or its hard variant), would have been lost if say the the Gikuyu orthography had been based on English (they don't have these sounds).

As for the ũ and ĩ, that one I leave to other experts. In fact Kenyatta tried to change this, for 'o' and 'e' respectively as it makes more sense. Clearly it didn't take.

Regarding the difference in pronunciation there two Bantu language families, the 'ba' and the 'wa' family (I am plagiarizing Ochieng here) - owing to the influence of past migratory direction, time of arrival and consonant drift.

Gikuyu, Kikamba, Swahili ( I think all Bantu languages on the Eastern seaboard) belong to the 'wa' family, which is why the people of Kenya are called, Wakenya, not Bakenya.

By the way consonant drift provides persuasive proof that Gikuyu is a derivative of Kikamba. In fact the Gikuyu tribe is a recent creation - as recent as 200 years ago - created for 'political' reasons. (Some of the bigots from Nyumba ya Muumbi and elsewhere need to remember this).

We are seeing a similar process of 'political' amalgamation among the Luyia and the Kalenjin today (the reverse process, as with the Miji Kenda, is more common). How this will influence the language remains to be seen.

But I digress.

@The clown, if you are pissed off, I challenge you to insult me in proto-Bantu.


The 'e' and 'o', would they really make more sense than the 'í' and 'ú'? I think not. Consider a word like ríene i.e. belonging to some one else. E.g. Ibuku ríene. Writing that as ibuku reene would completely mess up the proper Kikuyu pronunciation. Excuse the fact that I use the acute diacritic on the í's and ú's instead of tildes because I can't figure out how to type tilde-d characters on my keyboard.
Learn first to treat your time as you would your money, then treat your money as you do your time.
AlphDoti
#63 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:13:51 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Change of subject Applause Applause
simonkabz
#64 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:16:12 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
That new title is even more misleading.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
Magigi
#65 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:20:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
simonkabz wrote:
That new title is even more misleading.

Bro...Niaje...Long time. How have you been. i missed yousmile
Money Whisperer
#66 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:27:11 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/7/2010
Posts: 728
Location: Wazuaville
Lolest! wrote:
Siringi wrote:

Cege is not pronounced as sege. the c has a distinct pronunciation from s, I don't know how wakanyuhi would describe the sound...maybe dentohiss..he he


Somebody give us an app for pronunciations thenLaughing out loudly

The Rware people pronounce it as Shege. The Southern Sege. Or something very close to that.

Then in the north, some words change even the usually non contentious vowels. e.g some Northerners will say mutimia for woman in place of the conventional mutumia.

The t sound also very different!

Na mnasema anthropology haisaidii

The Murang'a dialect is considered standard dialect among Agikuyu. in Rware they say Chege; Murang'a SHege; Kiambu Sege
"Money never sleeps"
jaggernaut
#67 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:33:35 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
simonkabz wrote:
That new title is even more misleading.

Political correctness? Should revert to the old title since the new one is a confused title that doesn't reflect the content of the thread.
nesta
#68 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:40:57 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi

Now, i think, although it may be politically incorrect to revise the alphabet, it would be necessary to do so if at all we are to maintain the integrity...

For example, those kikuyus who say Sege, should be allowed to write Sege and those who say Shege, should be allowed to say Shege.

Today, we have a Mongrel that is Chege which has been completely adopted by all.

We need to do it for all our languages...the whites had fewer resources than us yet they were able to solve this problem.

Luhyas too have the problem with B..

So that names like Bifwoli should actually be pronounced as Bhifwoli and Busolo should be pronounced as Bhusolo

Whereas the written language should be developed from the spoken language, the spoken language is currently being influenced by the written..as seen from Kibaki, Chege, and Kabogo.

As for Maina, apparently he was a Luhya prophet whose's son slept with his wife. When he called the elders to report his son, the elders just passed over the matters. He was angry and cursed the Luhya (Bukusu>) Since his fame had spread throughout Kalenjin land and kikuyu land, he went to the Kalenjin and Blessed them. He later on migrated to kikuyu land where he was given a wife. He also blessed them and died there.

That's why (according to legend,) Luhyas are always very divided Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

However, Both luhyas and Kalenjins have got the MAINA age set. I don't know whether Kikuyus still have agesets, considering that many kikuyus i've come across don't even know their clans

Is Mwendwa a Kamba name or Embu name?
On Christ Alone
nesta
#69 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:43:49 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 121
Location: Nairobi
Money Whisperer wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
Siringi wrote:

Cege is not pronounced as sege. the c has a distinct pronunciation from s, I don't know how wakanyuhi would describe the sound...maybe dentohiss..he he


Somebody give us an app for pronunciations thenLaughing out loudly

The Rware people pronounce it as Shege. The Southern Sege. Or something very close to that.

Then in the north, some words change even the usually non contentious vowels. e.g some Northerners will say mutimia for woman in place of the conventional mutumia.

The t sound also very different!

Na mnasema anthropology haisaidii

The Murang'a dialect is considered standard dialect among Agikuyu. in Rware they say Chege; Murang'a SHege; Kiambu Sege


I honestly think vernacular should be taught in high school. What value do we get in teaching French, German in high school?
On Christ Alone
Money Whisperer
#70 Posted : Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:52:46 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/7/2010
Posts: 728
Location: Wazuaville
interesting discussion here on Gichande and Gikuyu writing system. The concept that writing came to Africa through whites is negated. Wish there was more info on the thread http://www.egyptsearch.c...;f=15;t=006833;go=older
"Money never sleeps"
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