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Is Kenya a Failed State
mtaalam
#61 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:25:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 519
There's no law and order in Kenya,if that's the definition of a failed state then yes we are.
Let's be honest,it took Waki,a not so experienced investigator a few weeks plus a not so well organised public hearing to come up with the list. So how comes the govt,the parties,the police,AG etc with all the mechanism and resources have not been able to investigate and come up with even one name in one and a half years?

No one can convince me that there's now or there's going to be political will to sort this issue and that's why I am 100% for the Hague!

ili iwe funzo...
bird_man
#62 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:59:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 1,206
Location: Nairobi
Lets stop kiddin ourselves here......we are a FAST FAILING state!Most of the people commenting here may not be in touch with reality ...maybe you live in 'Avarage' estates like South B,C,Kile,Buru etc.What we forget is that most Kenyans don't live there.

-No water (Mau farming going on even as we compain about this water.)
-Insecurity ( You can actually debate whats better,meeting thugs or cops at night)
-Stima ndiyo hiyo inahepa
-2 nd liberators are also the new grand thieves
-Food prices have actually doubled
-Fuel prices have gone up and cannot be controled
-Cabinet spends endless nights debating whether its ICC or Local tribunal ...while almost all Kenyans have agreed on which they want.
-Rotten judiciary ( remember Chomodely!)
-UON has 4 Bcom intakes/ yr yet no company is recruiting all those graduates
-All land in Eastleigh,South C and now CBD is slowly being sold off to Somalis,Libyans & Qataris while we complain about landlessness.

Y-ou cannot start a business is some areas WITHIN KENYA since you are unsure whether you will have to close or relocate after five years.

-Largest non-Toyota driving cabinet in Africa...i think the world too!
-A president who in times of hunger can only tell us about how many wives he has on national TV
-A PM whose house needs 38M renovation while his constituents have no ugali,jobs,housing or toilets
-A minister who decides to 'eat' and import maize from SA while people in his province were sellin at same price
-A finance minister who thinks 9B is a small joke u can laugh off and dismiss
-My mother and father came from humble beginnings and due to education,they lead a decent life today.Now make the mistake of being born poor today,in a family that cant afford 'acadamies'....even if you are the smartest ndani ndani..ur fate is sealed the minute you were born....u will die as you were born,poor!

Now we don't need definations from Wikipedia,UN etc. Look at the above and tell me whether you honestly think we ain't a failing state. Lets stop burying our heads in the sand.








The course of the world is changed by those who dare dream!
Formally employed people often live their employers' dream & forget about their own.
Sarrouniya
#63 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2009 8:37:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/31/2008
Posts: 163
Location: Nirvana
@bird_man,I am with you 100% on this. Away with the theory and ideologies. One look at the basic facts,cold and hard,and you will all agree that we are well on our way downhill faster than u think with only a few Kenyans responsible for that. LET'S SERIOUSLY RETHINK OUR CHOICES IN 2012.

The political playing field dictates the state of our economy as a whole. So good people therein and therein only lies our solution...


Sarrouniya
|The Universe will correspond to the nature of your song ...
Brewer
#64 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:00:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
Good that someone mentioned Kagame and his hand in Rwanda's turnaround. On the other hand,africa is not shy of examples of disastrous leadership. There is no substitute for good leadership in holding a state together and guiding it forward. But a state will essentially unite and prosper on the back of some domineering progressive idealogy and the leader should ideally be the best representative of that ideology. Freedom/independence were the overaching ideology of the 60s but what is the ideology of today?

I think we are on the VERGE OF NEW POLITICAL LEADERSHIP in this country and I doubt the domineering issue of the 2007 elections- sio wakati wa kabila hii au ni wakati wetu sasa- is much of an ideology for unity and prosperity for the new leadership. Fair or not Kibaki and Raila irredeemably represent the duel of 2007 with a short mandate now being to clean up the mess their duel left in its wake because in my view the future belongs elsewhere. The failure of a state is just one leader away!
Obi 1 Kanobi
#65 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2009 10:24:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@Birdman,your analysis of the state of the nation is correct but you have chosen to ignore the other side of the coin. Most of this stuff you have written is correct but don&rsquo;t you think its fair to balance the scales. I completely agree with you,and just to use my favorite shenglish &lsquo;Enyewe Tuko down&rsquo; but your statements are deliberately misrepresenting the correct picture;

Lets stop kiddin ourselves here......we are a FAST FAILING state!Most of the people commenting here may not be in touch with reality ...maybe you live in 'Avarage' estates like South B,C,Kile,Buru etc.What we forget is that most Kenyans don't live there.

-No water (Mau farming going on even as we complain about this water.) I can&rsquo;t argue with this,in my opinion I would describe this as &lsquo;clear and present danger&rsquo; we really need to get our act together and consolidate our water towers.
-Insecurity ( You can actually debate what&rsquo;s better,meeting thugs or cops at night) Agreed but this has been the scenario for as long as I can remember.
-Stima ndiyo hiyo inahepa Kengen and KPLC have also been incompetent for as long as they have been in existence
-2 nd liberators are also the new grand thieves; Agreed,but I am glad Kenyans have considerably raised the bar on governance in 2009 compared to 1991
-Food prices have actually doubled This is a result of the worldwide grain shortage,but there has been the death of traditional agricultural practices that depended on rain. I am not excusing the gava,they need to step up,Kenyans starving to death is not an option.
-Fuel prices have gone up and cannot be controlled- This is a worldwide phenomenon,
-Cabinet spends endless nights debating whether its ICC or Local tribunal ...while almost all Kenyans have agreed on which they want. &ndash; I don&rsquo;t think Kenyans have agreed on anything,let them talk,compromise and come up with a mutually acceptable solution,I don&rsquo;t see any problem here.
-Rotten judiciary (remember Chomondely!) &ndash; No comment
-UON has 4 Bcom intakes/ yr yet no company is recruiting all those graduates &ndash; This is a very good thing,I don&rsquo;t know why you included it here,most of the students already have jobs and are simply improving their quals. Besides,education is not meant to get you employed,its meant to improve one&rsquo;s knowledge. Gone are the days when one finished University and was called to become a DC,in this new world you get your degree and you look for work anywhere in the world (Have you heard of remittances from diaspora) or you take a bundus SACCO and transform it into one of the largest and most innovative financial Institution in Africa (heard of Equity).
-All land in Eastleigh,South C and now CBD is slowly being sold off to Somalis,Libyans & Qataris while we complain about landlessness. &ndash; The land most Kenyans want is for subsistence farming,but I concur,we need laws to check foreign integration in the country.

Y-ou cannot start a business is some areas WITHIN KENYA since you are unsure whether you will have to close or relocate after five years.- This was a one-off occurrence in 2007/08 over a 50 year period,1/50 is hardly a damning statistic,lets work on our differences and everything will be back to normal.

-Largest non-Toyota driving cabinet in Africa...i think the world too! &ndash; Source?
-A president who in times of hunger can only tell us about how many wives he has on national TV &ndash; Lets concentrate on the bigger picture (Kenya is not all about politicians,even larger than life personalities like Moi and Jomo came and left Kenya where they found it)
-A PM whose house needs 38M renovation while his constituents have no ugali,jobs,housing or toilets &ndash; Again bigger picture
-A minister who decides to 'eat' and import maize from SA while people in his province were sellin at same price &ndash; Again bigger picture
-A finance minister who thinks 9B is a small joke u can laugh off and dismiss &ndash; He was duly checked by the systems in place and the error corrected,his budget presentation partly redeemed him. We should applaud the vigilance that picked the error in the supplementary budget as a plus for Kenya.
-My mother and father came from humble beginnings and due to education,they lead a decent life today.Now make the mistake of being born poor today,in a family that cant afford 'acadamies'....even if you are the smartest ndani ndani..ur fate is sealed the minute you were born....u will die as you were born,poor! &ndash; I tend to agree that life has gotten worse,and things will probably get uglier as our population increases. More hospitals,schools,roads and other social amenities are needed to support the larger population and to create more opportunities for young Kenyans.

Now we don't need definations from Wikipedia,UN etc. Look at the above and tell me whether you honestly think we ain't a failing state. Lets stop burying our heads in the sand.

I see challenges,but when I sit in front of the internet with access to all knowledge in the world,the challenges also represent opportunities,if you want to mourn about innuendos,fine but remember others are not.




I've noticed the youth in particular coming in to a workplace with a completely outsized notion of their own value and importance... just a thinly-veiled arrogance. May be the credit crunch induced recession is whats needed to remind us all about the value of hard work.... By Anonymous
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
wote
#66 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:25:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/18/2007
Posts: 217
@Mkristo my brother first and foremost i do not live in Kenya,so that rules me out of listening to Kenyan news.

secondly,on this forum we seek to communicate with our fellow kenyans and share experiences on what is happening in other parts of the world and more so in terms of invstments.I was in South africa two weeks ago and i never meet any South africans who did not have any sense of belonging. honestly speaking i can tell you that i was in Kenya in December 2008 and more than 70% of Kenyans did not believe that the country actually belongs to them.Thus quotes like 'wenye inchi' and 'mwanaichi'.

In the early 1960's Kenyans GDP and that of South Korea were at par,Kenyan's was even bigger than Singapore,today they are not even comparable. Our positive thinking seems to retard us backwards or what do have to say on that.

Paul Kagame has applied the same policy as the founding leader of Singapore did in the 1960's and the 70's,i.e provided guided leadership where by he thinks for the population and the rest follow and apply his policy with out question. That is what the colonialist used to do for us only exception is that he is one of them.

Lastly,i do alot of interaction with big shorts at the United Nations and i can tell you with certainity,that The United Nations does not have one Ambassador Macharia Kamau heading any of its agency. There are two such agencies in Nairobi,one is head by a Swiss National (who is also the Derector -General for United Nations offices in Nairobi known as UNON) and the other is headed by a Tazanian Lady.


wote
ji
#67 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:42:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/7/2006
Posts: 51
YES,
And it would take great effort to persuade me to think the contrary.

'I never see what has been done; I only see what remains to be done.'



koli
#68 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2009 5:50:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/19/2008
Posts: 3
we are not equating kenya with somali.

Failed states can be of various degree.Infact Somali is a collapsed state.Kenya is a failed state .





we are all in the same boat;
a boat that is sinking.
Jaymiggy
#69 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:58:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/18/2008
Posts: 23
@ Brewer;
I thought all of us moved on from the ODM-PNU nonsense?? now what are you doing taking us back to that crap???

@ All: It's only you and me who can turn around our country. Plant trees,don't litter,don't pay bribes,be your brother's keeper,do the right thing,obey the law,take your kids to school,educate them.... just do the right thing.
Brewer
#70 Posted : Friday, July 17, 2009 6:55:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
Jaymiggy- your wind assisted trip to ODM/PNU nonsense must be lonely because i never mentioned such stuff. We are on the VERGE OF NEW LEADERSHIP,I said.
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