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Why investing in the NSE is fool's gold and a waste
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2007 Posts: 2,074 Location: Lagos, Nigeria
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NSE is a safe Haven ....just learn how to invest properly (without emotion). Don't invest in monkeys FROM @ the deal BUT If by mistake you invested in monkeys , cut losses on time and re-invest on large cap value counters. Yoy profit growth is an indication of value counters . Some large cap value counters of yesteryears are now monkeys eg BAMBURI, NMG. You have to screen and re-appraise your portfolio periodically . I am a big beneficiary of NSE especially on dividend income (lots of interim and final dividends from year 2012 ). I have over 14 years experience in NSE. I Invest for the long term. For the first 7 years (2004 - 2011) I was a speculator , I got my fingers burnt severally , I almost quit NSE. On a second thought I strategized as a long termer from 2011 to date , and it paid off mostly on dividend income on large cap value stocks. This is my take as a foreign non resident investor. The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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the deal wrote:MugundaMan wrote:the deal wrote:@mungundaman I will ask again... Which sectors of the Kenyan economy are doing well?I don't want to here about state contracts or tenders... It's well known fact in Wazua that Home Afrika was a no investment... Same as Sameer, NBK, KQ, Uchumi and Kirwitu... As far as HF is concerned...they took alot of risk... When the rate cap came they were caught swimming naked... HF is also a barometer on how bad things are in Kenyas real estate sector... Corruption money has been inflating prices... Artificial demand... Read this and weep https://www.businessdail...7938-kjjsa1z/index.html
The truth is Uhuru has F****d the Kenyan economy with Chinese loans! So huge projects like SGR had no impact on NSE or anyone because everything was coming from China including workers! Real estate -red hawtt Service industry -red hawtt Agriculture -red hawtt Fintech-red hawtt Financial services -red hawtt Manufacturing -doing reasonably well Don't let a few crumbling companies on the casino fool you. The vast majority of companies in the sectors above are doing very well. I wish you could backup your arguments with data or links
"Banking sector data for the first nine months of the year showed that non-performing loans rose to Sh326 billion from Sh260 billion in a similar period last year, driven by defaults from small businesses and the taxi sector. The data paints a picture of households and small traders taking loans that they are unable to service." Link https://www.businessdail...7938-kjjsa1z/index.html
Fintech???" Those Apps are blowing up with defaults.  ... How is Real People doing? Look at Suraya Properties not at the NSE but blowing up https://www.businessdail...9700-mxpc1xz/index.html In fact Real Estate is becoming the biggest contributor of NPL's in the banking sector... Data from CBK... Why are folks defaulting on loans if they're making a killing? https://www.standardmedi...close-is-it-to-bursting
NSE is a safe haven... Just learn how to invest properly... Stop investing in monkeys Soma hapaYou can't go micro and extrapolate it to the whole economy ati because HAFR is doing bad the whole economy is doing bad. Very funny! At the macro level; you asked for it..here it is, latest ...2017. Red hawtt growth rates have since picked up significantly in all sectors in the four quarters of 2018. Very amusing how some think an economy growing at well over 5%+ (one of the highest growth rates in the world) is "doing bad"  . Which economic measurements are they using?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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MugundaMan wrote:the deal wrote:MugundaMan wrote:the deal wrote:@mungundaman I will ask again... Which sectors of the Kenyan economy are doing well?I don't want to here about state contracts or tenders... It's well known fact in Wazua that Home Afrika was a no investment... Same as Sameer, NBK, KQ, Uchumi and Kirwitu... As far as HF is concerned...they took alot of risk... When the rate cap came they were caught swimming naked... HF is also a barometer on how bad things are in Kenyas real estate sector... Corruption money has been inflating prices... Artificial demand... Read this and weep https://www.businessdail...7938-kjjsa1z/index.html
The truth is Uhuru has F****d the Kenyan economy with Chinese loans! So huge projects like SGR had no impact on NSE or anyone because everything was coming from China including workers! Real estate -red hawtt Service industry -red hawtt Agriculture -red hawtt Fintech-red hawtt Financial services -red hawtt Manufacturing -doing reasonably well Don't let a few crumbling companies on the casino fool you. The vast majority of companies in the sectors above are doing very well. I wish you could backup your arguments with data or links
"Banking sector data for the first nine months of the year showed that non-performing loans rose to Sh326 billion from Sh260 billion in a similar period last year, driven by defaults from small businesses and the taxi sector. The data paints a picture of households and small traders taking loans that they are unable to service." Link https://www.businessdail...7938-kjjsa1z/index.html
Fintech???" Those Apps are blowing up with defaults.  ... How is Real People doing? Look at Suraya Properties not at the NSE but blowing up https://www.businessdail...9700-mxpc1xz/index.html In fact Real Estate is becoming the biggest contributor of NPL's in the banking sector... Data from CBK... Why are folks defaulting on loans if they're making a killing? https://www.standardmedi...close-is-it-to-bursting
NSE is a safe haven... Just learn how to invest properly... Stop investing in monkeys Soma hapaYou can't go micro and extrapolate it to the whole economy ati because HAFR is doing bad the whole economy is doing bad. Very funny! At the macro level; you asked for it..here it is, latest ...2017. Red hawtt growth rates have since picked up significantly in all sectors in the four quarters of 2018. Very amusing how some think an economy growing at well over 5%+ (one of the highest growth rates in the world) is "doing bad"  . Which economic measurements are they using? The 5% growth rate is due to Government spending on vanity projects like SGR... Unless you were a middle men or you had land near SGR I don't see how you benefited because the China man supplied everything...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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the deal wrote:The 5% growth rate is due to Government spending on vanity projects like SGR...
Unless you were a middle men or you had land near SGR I don't see how you benefited because the China man supplied everything...
Did you even soma the KNBS economic survey? Where is the evidence of the above? SGR is just a tiny fraction of the entire economy baba SGR construction just started juzi juzi. Kenya has been growing at a red hawtt 5% since 2002! Where was SGR then?
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/2/2018 Posts: 267
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 'The Blue Economy' is the next phase of swindling Kenyans! AndyC wrote:Ali Baba wrote:mv_ufanisi wrote:Perhaps I have been a bit lucky in business but what I have found is that I feel that it is a much better use of my intellect, money and time precisely because I have a lot more control. It's the difference between being a spectator and standing on the sidelines, versus getting in the game yourself.
The good thing about the mistakes I've made in business is that I get better over time as I learn to avoid those mistakes. So it's something that has taken moving through a lot of failure to eventually get to success.
People are taught to be eternal optimists but you have to understand the fundamental forces that affect the NSE. It's not a pendulum that just goes back and forth without any reason.
Companies are real entities; they can go bankrupt and go to zero in value e.g. Mumias Sugar. I pity the shareholders who assumed that the company would come back simply because it was listed in the NSE. There are more real fundamental forces such as profitability and good governance which affect the direction that the markets take.
Let's take the example of Centum, their management have received perhaps billions in bonuses while shareholders have lost value. So you've got companies being run for the benefit of management not shareholders. This dichotomy relationship in an area with low trust and accountability is what makes the NSE a particularly more dangerous place to play in.
The NSE has stagnated over the past few years for some reason. No new companies are joining the NSE while a number of listed companies are practically dead or have delisted. I agree with you.One of the major problems at NSE is lack of enforcement of the law.Secondly,I believe parastatals should not be listed as they are driven more by politics than real economic forces.Listed parastatals should either be de-listed or government should dilute its stake.The leadership at CMA since the departure of Stella Kilonzo has been wanting.We should get new leaders at CMA,Paul Muthaura,maybe should become an ambassador for Kenya in Kiribati. Kiribati  would be perfect for the country's blue economy interests.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/2/2018 Posts: 267
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Kwanza huko "dustbowl of the dustbowl", wacha tu!  I bought some 'dirt-cheap' plots in the dustbowl of the dustbowl 2010/11, and my oh my, how I wish I went to the casino! While I have title deeds, man that place isn't developing (not perhaps until after 2022!) and one can't thus unlock the value any time soon, unless @Mugundaman is willing to buy me out! tom_boy wrote:Wewe @shambaman, you are trying to paint a rosy picture of dustbowl investing but its nothing close.
First you must overcome the the capital huddle. The less your capital, the more likely you are to be relegated to periphery of dust bowl, yaani dustbowl of the dustbowl.
Those places are the ones where you pay deposit and wait for subdivision or mara title processing. If you have 8 to 5 job, just doing the due diligence is a problem. You have to rely on the broker, a crook most likely, to do the so called "due dilligence". This is because the alternative is to take leave and go camp there.
Doing search is a whole day affair. Dont even mention chasing the title deed.
You then discover that the land has no beacons, or beacons were removed by herdsmen. Sasa tafuta surveyor. Then you fence it to avoid further issues with shamba imefika wapi.
5yrs down, fence has been stollen. Posts have long been used as firewood by herdsmen and wire been sold to other guys.
Then you leave the kaplot for 10yrs, when you come back, you cant even remember where it was. Again, tafuta surveyor to redo beacons.
Then your neighbour shows up and claims your beacons are wrongly done and encroached on his shamba. Dispute inaingia papo hapo. You now have a " hung" shamba. Cant develop, cant sell.
These are real risks in mugunda investing esp huko dustbowl.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/2/2018 Posts: 267
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MugundaMan wrote:the deal wrote:The 5% growth rate is due to Government spending on vanity projects like SGR...
Unless you were a middle men or you had land near SGR I don't see how you benefited because the China man supplied everything...
Did you even soma the KNBS economic survey? Where is the evidence of the above? SGR is just a tiny fraction of the entire economy baba SGR construction just started juzi juzi. Kenya has been growing at a red hawtt 5% since 2002! Where was SGR then? The 5% GDP growth is comprised of: 1. Remnants of SGR construction 2. Civil servants and state officers' salaries 3. Trickles of looting 4. Creative figures from KNBS, being the rubberstamp for Uhu'looto' stats With a 8% 2017 inflation rate, who the heck felt a 5% GDP growth? You can shout your answer from the dustbowl. (20marks)
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/2/2018 Posts: 267
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I feel you @mv_ufanisi. However, asking everyone to quit NSE isn't solving the problem that ails it. Kenyans have been let down by lousy regulators, prosecutors and the justice system (or lack of it). That's why people become billionaires overnight (don't get me wrong; not via sports betting  ) and know they will get away with it and even become MCAs, MPs, Senators, Governors, and Presidents (and Deputy Presidents). Corruption. Kleptocracy. KRA-tocracy. etc. are many of the problems that bedevil the country, and the NSE in a huge way.
These are the problems that should be resolved. Because no matter what you do (passive investments, business, land/property etc.), you can be sure some of these ills will find their way there. Right now, I wouldn't touch a Corporate Bond in Kenya with a 10-foot pole, as they say. Soon, Treasury Bonds may become toxic (what with goons mortgaging the sovereignty of the country's assets). Don't even speak of fixed deposits, which can go up in smoke in a whim. In business, you encounter a harsh environment, and fraudsters lurk everywhere (and you won't be assisted to bring them to book), yet you may still make it honestly. It's doom and gloom if you look all around. That's why we can't just give up. We want you to find us here when your business finally needs capital injection. We want to be confident when giving you our money. We want to sleep well at night knowing that if you had massaged the Information Memorandum, you will rot in jail and we will get back our money. Yet, this will only be possible when we can trust the system to live up to the theory. But this will be till that time when the revolution comes. mv_ufanisi wrote:Why investing in the NSE is a waste of your intellect and money and is the Kenyan reincarnation of "fool's gold"
definition: fool's gold is also known as pyrite iron, fool's gold is a gold-colored mineral that is often mistaken for real gold but has no value
1. Your investment is subject to the whims of the market and a lot of factors outside your control. If it was your small business facing these challenges at least you have the opportunity to deal with the problems yourself or talk to that resourceful friend that could sort you out. At the NSE you have to stand on the sidelines and wring your hands as management fumbles with simple things that you would know how to deal with.
2. You will get a false sense of achievement. Naturally when the market goes up you will be on a false high. You won't understand why you were successful, preparing you to make large mistakes in the future. Your high will be more similar to that of a gambler than that of a business owner who has acquired real knowledge and experience.
3. You are entrusting your money with management in an environment of low trust and poor law enforcement. How many NSE companies have had corrupt management? It doesn't even matter if the company is doing well or not. Your company could be in a great industry where it should be making a lot of profits but management finds a way to steal the value from you in the form of bonuses, side deals and tenders to related parties etc. There are many companies in the NSE where management has done very well for themselves in the last 5 years while shareholders have lost value.
4. We as a continent are not there yet. We have very few companies listed in African stock markets precisely because we have too few companies in Africa. We are in an time period where we are called to be pioneers and build companies, yet unfortunately most of us have been educated using a syllabus suited for the developed world Wall Street BS. Your situation as an African if you look towards the West or specifically the US for inspiration should be more similar to the pioneers who first immigrated to the United States of America and had to build everything from scratch. That is where most African countries are. Not Wall Street level! The smart person is the one that can tell the difference.
5. It's a poor investment. You are much better off putting your hard earned money in CBK treasury bills and bonds and getting 9%-10% a year than losing 40%-60% of it in the NSE. If you want unlimited upside possibility take a small percentage of your assets say 10% and either start a small company or fund one where you have the ability to use your intellect, connections and money to grow the value of your investment. Worst case if you lose the 10% you still have the 90% of your assets intact.
6. You will waste your time and intellect analyzing the NSE than using it to solve society's problems and generate wealth for yourself. There are brilliant people on Wazua with great intellect and insights but unfortunately that is wasted because they are not able to implement their ideas. That intellect would generate a lot more return solving problems in a small company.
That is why a few years ago, I sold all my NSE equity, started a company in stead and made a lot lot more return for myself while creating much needed jobs in the economy.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/8/2018 Posts: 2,212 Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
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Superprime1 wrote:Kwanza huko "dustbowl of the dustbowl", wacha tu! I bought some 'dirt-cheap' plots in the dustbowl of the dustbowl 2010/11, and my oh my, how I wish I went to the casino! While I have title deeds, man that place isn't developing (not perhaps until after 2022!) and one can't thus unlock the value any time soon, unless @Mugundaman is willing to buy me out! Wacha lies! We can spot them from 100 miles away. Where in dustbowl and for how much. (I doubt he will respond  ) that is how you know some ferras on Wazoo are 100% bandia!
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