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Mjengo ianze! Penny-Stocker and other gurus, help!
muandiwambeu
#51 Posted : Tuesday, January 23, 2018 5:53:59 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
Fyatu wrote:
Where can i find a directory of professional building contractors for a small scale project( a 60 by 40 ft house) in Nairobi and its environs? Is there a website or sorts? Any recommendations?

I have not seen one @fytu. Drop Ur mail, I be ur number one. @marjas we do great work. You could as well visit your local NCA offices and they ought to sort you out with a list of registered tenderprenuers or kibaomenLaughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly smile Pray
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
muandiwambeu
#52 Posted : Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:08:05 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/28/2015
Posts: 1,247
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.

You have tried.
But to supplement you.
1. Have your drawings and designs done by a credible professional. Normally, appoint a project manager. Architect and engineer must do atleast a visit at this stage.
2. Have each professional design an inspection schedule for the project. Ie inspection card.
3. Negotiate your charges with the building technical team.
4. Note, like doctors, Engineers, architects, QS are not lazybodies of late. Be present or be responsibly be represented on site at each site visit. There will always be conflicts to be resolved and its not the professionals mandatory duty to follow up your hustles.
5. If you are keen to instructions, discounts galore is what I give you. I have enough hustle to do, rather than be on every site now and fighting your class 3 drop out know it all thug(fundi) just for me to go and drawn my stressed eyes with your cheaply financed changaa and ruin my jalopy, my programs and my liver.
Its the professionals duty to let you know of critical inspection stages during development of your building. Always get a localised/ ie locally available consultant at least one, where possible. You may not have to think of fuelling a fleet of fuel guzzlers and after many not available calls
6.Some aspects of finishings are personal appeal and orderous to capture for basic consultation fees and level of customisation of design tools, market arvessness, availability etc etc to dwell on. You need it, I charge an extra dime and you buy a mbuzi for me to spend my time with u shopping for you or getting you samples. It can be hefty if you need to know.
7. Your project conn-nsultant (manager, foreman, lead fundi, clerk of works, storekeeper) will do you or roast you at will. Luv them and they bring you red roses everyday.
Good foundation setting day. This has been a good January. Six candy projects and not end month yet.
,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
Musimo
#53 Posted : Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:03:40 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
muandiwambeu wrote:
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.

You have tried.
But to supplement you.
1. Have your drawings and designs done by a credible professional. Normally, appoint a project manager. Architect and engineer must do atleast a visit at this stage.
2. Have each professional design an inspection schedule for the project. Ie inspection card.
3. Negotiate your charges with the building technical team.
4. Note, like doctors, Engineers, architects, QS are not lazybodies of late. Be present or be responsibly be represented on site at each site visit. There will always be conflicts to be resolved and its not the professionals mandatory duty to follow up your hustles.
5. If you are keen to instructions, discounts galore is what I give you. I have enough hustle to do, rather than be on every site now and fighting your class 3 drop out know it all thug(fundi) just for me to go and drawn my stressed eyes with your cheaply financed changaa and ruin my jalopy, my programs and my liver.
Its the professionals duty to let you know of critical inspection stages during development of your building. Always get a localised/ ie locally available consultant at least one, where possible. You may not have to think of fuelling a fleet of fuel guzzlers and after many not available calls
6.Some aspects of finishings are personal appeal and orderous to capture for basic consultation fees and level of customisation of design tools, market arvessness, availability etc etc to dwell on. You need it, I charge an extra dime and you buy a mbuzi for me to spend my time with u shopping for you or getting you samples. It can be hefty if you need to know.
7. Your project conn-nsultant (manager, foreman, lead fundi, clerk of works, storekeeper) will do you or roast you at will. Luv them and they bring you red roses everyday.
Good foundation setting day. This has been a good January. Six candy projects and not end month yet.


I left most of that out because before, construction professionals had been associated with a waste of money, had to define what our role is especially for smaller construction works like building a house. But thanks for expounding some more for the naysayers.
MugundaMan
#54 Posted : Thursday, January 25, 2018 10:28:21 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/8/2018
Posts: 2,212
Location: DC (Dustbowl County)
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.


Good tips brother. We need more posts like these. lakini hiyo bei yenu punguza kiasi kiasi. For a simple maisonette that is daylight robbery.
madhaquer
#55 Posted : Wednesday, January 31, 2018 8:50:21 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 281
Location: Nairobi
All architects understand that their clients are looking to save costs.
Be honest with him, inform him of how you intend to manage the project. Introduce him to your foreman and ask him to interview him and give you his opinion of the guy. after that divide the project into phases and invite him to come and inspect the progress and give his comments.

I have done it and it has worked for me in 2 projects. In each case I had a different architect. One thing I observed with this guys is that they tend to be busy handling multiple projects so they are willing to pop in for a couple of hours once every few weeks as per your schedule and that can be paid on a per visit basis.

Once the roofing and plumbing/septics is complete, you really don't need them for the interior. The interior is actually one of the most expensive parts and this is mainly governed by choice of finishing.

hth
sanity
#56 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 6:38:14 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 407
Location: Nairobi,Kenya
Musimo wrote:
muandiwambeu wrote:
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.

You have tried.
But to supplement you.
1. Have your drawings and designs done by a credible professional. Normally, appoint a project manager. Architect and engineer must do atleast a visit at this stage.
2. Have each professional design an inspection schedule for the project. Ie inspection card.
3. Negotiate your charges with the building technical team.
4. Note, like doctors, Engineers, architects, QS are not lazybodies of late. Be present or be responsibly be represented on site at each site visit. There will always be conflicts to be resolved and its not the professionals mandatory duty to follow up your hustles.
5. If you are keen to instructions, discounts galore is what I give you. I have enough hustle to do, rather than be on every site now and fighting your class 3 drop out know it all thug(fundi) just for me to go and drawn my stressed eyes with your cheaply financed changaa and ruin my jalopy, my programs and my liver.
Its the professionals duty to let you know of critical inspection stages during development of your building. Always get a localised/ ie locally available consultant at least one, where possible. You may not have to think of fuelling a fleet of fuel guzzlers and after many not available calls
6.Some aspects of finishings are personal appeal and orderous to capture for basic consultation fees and level of customisation of design tools, market arvessness, availability etc etc to dwell on. You need it, I charge an extra dime and you buy a mbuzi for me to spend my time with u shopping for you or getting you samples. It can be hefty if you need to know.
7. Your project conn-nsultant (manager, foreman, lead fundi, clerk of works, storekeeper) will do you or roast you at will. Luv them and they bring you red roses everyday.
Good foundation setting day. This has been a good January. Six candy projects and not end month yet.


I left most of that out because before, construction professionals had been associated with a waste of money, had to define what our role is especially for smaller construction works like building a house. But thanks for expounding some more for the naysayers.


Even as you involve them..be informed of what you are getting into..These Professionals will milk you dry even before you start your project.
Hope is not a strategy
Musimo
#57 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:09:59 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
sanity wrote:

Even as you involve them..be informed of what you are getting into..These Professionals will milk you dry even before you start your project.


Currently it costs somewhere between 30k and 50k per square metre for a good finish to a house, and most built areas for houses are in the region of 150-200 square metres. We are talking max. 10 million on that house. We have 2, max 3 professionals to be paid a total 250k max (2.5% of total project cost) for their services, thus removing most of your risk, assuming you will listen to them. Can this be referred to as getting milked really? How much would you want to pay the professional? Are you assuming that they do no work to get you the blueprints and sign the indemnity form provided by the local council, deliver design calculations and get approvals for you?
Sometimes I pity professionals in our country, no one wants to pay them for their work but whenever a negative event happens in their field fingers are all pointed at them.
Musimo
#58 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:18:37 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
MugundaMan wrote:
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.


Good tips brother. We need more posts like these. lakini hiyo bei yenu punguza kiasi kiasi. For a simple maisonette that is daylight robbery.


Compare the expected costs vis-a-vis the cost of the engineer, architect, QS. Remember they also have families to feed and bills to pay, and sometimes there are no clients for months (case in point, last year was f-ed up due to political situation and the fact that no one wanted to spend in such a climate due to its unknown end date.)
Optionally, request the engineer to charge an amount based on square area to be built (something like sh. 750/sq.m for areas less than 50sq. m, sh500/sq.m for areas more than 50sq.m. But also expect him to charge you for any printing works to be undertaken on your project. Something along those lines.
Musimo
#59 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:21:39 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/3/2015
Posts: 118
Location: Nairobi
Musimo wrote:
MugundaMan wrote:
Musimo wrote:
On the big projects with an importance structure greater than 1, the clients prefer having an engineer/clerk of works on site (looking at projects like thika road, times tower, britam tower, UON towers, etc)
On small projects with importance factor less than one (bungalows and maisonettes,your simba and other small houses), having a foreman who can understand 1. Architectural drawings because of setting out, and 2. Structural drawings to ensure the structure will function as intended over its design life, and supplement the foreman by having the structural engineer come over and confirm his instructions via the drawings are being implemented.
Matters pay: The engineer would usually charge a professional fee, anywhere from 60-100k depending on built-up area. Before you scream expensive, this amount would be used to compensate for his time working on calculations that are usually submitted to the local council for approvals and also pay the draftsman who would produce the drawing, it would also pay for the printing of the drawings( also called plotting). Part of that would also cover professional indemnity insurance, so that if a problem arises with the structure and you sue him, the insurance would cover the same.
Over the duration of the construction, you would then pay the engineer for him coming for site visits, usually over the following intervals: After excavation, to check the excavated trenches for the strip footings and the pad footings, if any; Before concreting for the strip footing (confirm bar sizes used). These two are sometimes combined, in cases where the steel has been cut and tied while excavation is still ongoing; Before concreting for ground slab to confirm hardcore and BRC is as specified, plus inclusion of DPC in the foundation to ensure no water would trickle upwards; before concreting of suspended slab to ensure steel is of required diameter and recommended spacing, and sometimes before concreting of roof beam, for similar reasons as above. They usually request amounts in the range of 3-5k per visit (fuel,etc).

Finally, think of the many buildings that have collapsed, majority had an engineer who came up with the drawings, but the fundi on site almost always over-rode the drawings to save funds. always ensure you have an engineer recognized by the engineers board of kenya, and a fundi who will follow the drawings to the letter. If you have a query and you engaged an engineer, by the fact that you paid him will leave him open to receiving and answering your queries.


Good tips brother. We need more posts like these. lakini hiyo bei yenu punguza kiasi kiasi. For a simple maisonette that is daylight robbery.


Compare the expected costs vis-a-vis the cost of the engineer, architect, QS. Remember they also have families to feed and bills to pay, and sometimes there are no clients for months (case in point, last year was f-ed up due to political situation and the fact that no one wanted to spend in such a climate due to its unknown end date.) I personally worked on 4 projects all year pre-election, with some 2-5 planned post august 8th. None of the post-election projects kicked off. That is how hard the year was.
Optionally, request the engineer to charge an amount based on square area to be built (something like sh. 750/sq.m for areas less than 50sq. m, sh500/sq.m for areas more than 50sq.m. But also expect him to charge you for any printing works to be undertaken on your project. Something along those lines.

Swenani
#60 Posted : Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:31:46 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 8/15/2013
Posts: 13,237
Location: Vacuum
Musimo wrote:
sanity wrote:

Even as you involve them..be informed of what you are getting into..These Professionals will milk you dry even before you start your project.


Currently it costs somewhere between 30k and 50k per square metre for a good finish to a house, and most built areas for houses are in the region of 150-200 square metres. We are talking max. 10 million on that house. We have 2, max 3 professionals to be paid a total 250k max (2.5% of total project cost) for their services, thus removing most of your risk, assuming you will listen to them. Can this be referred to as getting milked really? How much would you want to pay the professional? Are you assuming that they do no work to get you the blueprints and sign the indemnity form provided by the local council, deliver design calculations and get approvals for you?
Sometimes I pity professionals in our country, no one wants to pay them for their work but whenever a negative event happens in their field fingers are all pointed at them.


50K PSM is not a good finish but high end finish my friend with profit margin of 20-25%. Most Nairobians wako between 20K-30KPSM
If Obiero did it, Who Am I?
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