Wazua
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House Sinks in Huruma
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,331 Location: Masada
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maka wrote:masukuma wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Blaming Kidero/Nema for this is akin to chasing a phantom, they are responsible for all decisions affecting such constructions but ultimately, they rely on minions to do their jobs.
I read in today's papers that the 2 slumlords are to be charged with manslaughter. A fair decision as they are directly responsible for the construction.
I would also like to see a specific county employee, NEMA employee, the contractor and Architect (I am sure the last 2 do not exist) responsible for approving this building face similar charges. Let this employees implicate their bosses if they can demonstrate that negligence was delegated.
If responsibility needs to be scaled up, then why stop it at the Governor, how about take it all the way to the president, at the end of the day, he is the president of all of Kenya. I am in agreement! there is also a level of personal responsibility that we as citizens should also take. People are careless with their lives and the lives of their families. How do you live in such a house and pay rent? really? then one hears fatalistic statements like "Oh.... Mungu ndio anatuchunga"... "Oh.... Mimi ni masikini".... Listen... hata kama wewe ni masikini level gani - you should know your life is not as cheep as you think. I am sure Lucy Kibaki would have paid millions to get that "life" you have. Why would you then just live it like it doesn't matter? why relegate yourself and your family's lives to statistics to be used during campaigns??? I know there are others in the blame chain but the 1st person who should be blamed is YOU! not all "poor" people live in dangling houses... tuwache ushenzi at a personal level... seriously! we cannot continue losing lives to stupid decisions and then make these lives political fodder. Oh... Kidero.... Oh Planner... hii ni 3rd world... take care of your life and that of your loved ones. On this note when that ka mini mall opens hapo opp T mall we should all boycott going huko.. I will only go there if they sell some good fried and crunchy gizzards! Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/4/2015 Posts: 241 Location: Kahno
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/4/2015 Posts: 241 Location: Kahno
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kimanimsc wrote:Baba RAO visits Huruma. https://twitter.com/Radi...atus/727479473604534272
Teargas, chaos as @RailaOdinga @Wetangulam and @skmusyoka arrive at the #HurumaTragedy scene.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Surely teargas ya nini sasa.... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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masukuma wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Blaming Kidero/Nema for this is akin to chasing a phantom, they are responsible for all decisions affecting such constructions but ultimately, they rely on minions to do their jobs.
I read in today's papers that the 2 slumlords are to be charged with manslaughter. A fair decision as they are directly responsible for the construction.
I would also like to see a specific county employee, NEMA employee, the contractor and Architect (I am sure the last 2 do not exist) responsible for approving this building face similar charges. Let this employees implicate their bosses if they can demonstrate that negligence was delegated.
If responsibility needs to be scaled up, then why stop it at the Governor, how about take it all the way to the president, at the end of the day, he is the president of all of Kenya. I am in agreement! there is also a level of personal responsibility that we as citizens should also take. People are careless with their lives and the lives of their families. How do you live in such a house and pay rent? really? then one hears fatalistic statements like "Oh.... Mungu ndio anatuchunga"... "Oh.... Mimi ni masikini".... Listen... hata kama wewe ni masikini level gani - you should know your life is not as cheep as you think. I am sure Lucy Kibaki would have paid millions to get that "life" you have. Why would you then just live it like it doesn't matter? why relegate yourself and your family's lives to statistics to be used during campaigns??? I know there are others in the blame chain but the 1st person who should be blamed is YOU! not all "poor" people live in dangling houses... tuwache ushenzi at a personal level... seriously! we cannot continue losing lives to stupid decisions and then make these lives political fodder. Oh... Kidero.... Oh Planner... hii ni 3rd world... take care of your life and that of your loved ones. @Masukuma, I sympathise with you. May you never ever have to make tough decisions like " Do I eat this mouldy bread or go without food?" In my opinion, Kidero and his boys n girls are to blame. It is there duty to make sure such buildings are not constructed and if they are, they should not be habited. Secondly, blame the owners. However, I wonder what will happen in law when owners present NEMA certificates and building plans duly authorised by Kanju. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Baby pulled out alive three days after collapse of Kenya building"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Blaming Kidero/Nema for this is akin to chasing a phantom, they are responsible for all decisions affecting such constructions but ultimately, they rely on minions to do their jobs.
I read in today's papers that the 2 slumlords are to be charged with manslaughter. A fair decision as they are directly responsible for the construction.
I would also like to see a specific county employee, NEMA employee, the contractor and Architect (I am sure the last 2 do not exist) responsible for approving this building face similar charges. Let this employees implicate their bosses if they can demonstrate that negligence was delegated.
If responsibility needs to be scaled up, then why stop it at the Governor, how about take it all the way to the president, at the end of the day, he is the president of all of Kenya. I am in agreement! there is also a level of personal responsibility that we as citizens should also take. People are careless with their lives and the lives of their families. How do you live in such a house and pay rent? really? then one hears fatalistic statements like "Oh.... Mungu ndio anatuchunga"... "Oh.... Mimi ni masikini".... Listen... hata kama wewe ni masikini level gani - you should know your life is not as cheep as you think. I am sure Lucy Kibaki would have paid millions to get that "life" you have. Why would you then just live it like it doesn't matter? why relegate yourself and your family's lives to statistics to be used during campaigns??? I know there are others in the blame chain but the 1st person who should be blamed is YOU! not all "poor" people live in dangling houses... tuwache ushenzi at a personal level... seriously! we cannot continue losing lives to stupid decisions and then make these lives political fodder. Oh... Kidero.... Oh Planner... hii ni 3rd world... take care of your life and that of your loved ones. @Masukuma, I sympathise with you. May you never ever have to make tough decisions like " Do I eat this mouldy bread or go without food?" In my opinion, Kidero and his boys n girls are to blame. It is there duty to make sure such buildings are not constructed and if they are, they should not be habited. Secondly, blame the owners. However, I wonder what will happen in law when owners present NEMA certificates and building plans duly authorised by Kanju. You are missing the point. I concur with you that the entire establishment has let down the people living in this building and many others accross the city and even Kenya. The point is, lets identify specific individuals within the authorities whose signatures are on the documents and have them take individual responsibilities for the tragedy. Use a simple checklist: 1. For the owners; did they follow the building codes, which professionals did they use and were they convinced that the building is stable, did they perform regular inspections etc 2. For the contractor/architect, did he follow their professional building codes, do they have relevant training to construct such a building 3. Authorities (the responsible officer here and not everyone); did they approve the building plans, do the building plans meet minimum requirements, did the building follow the codes, was the building location within law etc This is because if we insist on accusing the establishment, then the case becomes too complicated to prove, we are then left with nothing. But if we focus on small steps where we narrow our focus to the individuals responsible, then other people in their position quickly learn that you pay for your sins as an individual (just like you will in heaven/hell) "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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tom_boy wrote:[quote=masukuma]
@Masukuma, I sympathise with you. May you never ever have to make tough decisions like " Do I eat this mouldy bread or go without food?"
In my opinion, Kidero and his boys n girls are to blame. It is there duty to make sure such buildings are not constructed and if they are, they should not be habited.
Secondly, blame the owners. However, I wonder what will happen in law when owners present NEMA certificates and building plans duly authorised by Kanju. wewe sympathise tu! wacha watu waendelee vivyo hivyo!! living carelessly then blaming people they have never met for their woes. Kama Kidero and co wangefanya kazi yao ya manyumba hawa watu wangelala wapi? Tuwache kuwa irresponsible - take control of your life and don't be fatalistic... hii ujinga ndio imetujaa. Maisha ni yako sio ya kidero! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Blaming Kidero/Nema for this is akin to chasing a phantom, they are responsible for all decisions affecting such constructions but ultimately, they rely on minions to do their jobs.
I read in today's papers that the 2 slumlords are to be charged with manslaughter. A fair decision as they are directly responsible for the construction.
I would also like to see a specific county employee, NEMA employee, the contractor and Architect (I am sure the last 2 do not exist) responsible for approving this building face similar charges. Let this employees implicate their bosses if they can demonstrate that negligence was delegated.
If responsibility needs to be scaled up, then why stop it at the Governor, how about take it all the way to the president, at the end of the day, he is the president of all of Kenya. I am in agreement! there is also a level of personal responsibility that we as citizens should also take. People are careless with their lives and the lives of their families. How do you live in such a house and pay rent? really? then one hears fatalistic statements like "Oh.... Mungu ndio anatuchunga"... "Oh.... Mimi ni masikini".... Listen... hata kama wewe ni masikini level gani - you should know your life is not as cheep as you think. I am sure Lucy Kibaki would have paid millions to get that "life" you have. Why would you then just live it like it doesn't matter? why relegate yourself and your family's lives to statistics to be used during campaigns??? I know there are others in the blame chain but the 1st person who should be blamed is YOU! not all "poor" people live in dangling houses... tuwache ushenzi at a personal level... seriously! we cannot continue losing lives to stupid decisions and then make these lives political fodder. Oh... Kidero.... Oh Planner... hii ni 3rd world... take care of your life and that of your loved ones. @Masukuma, I sympathise with you. May you never ever have to make tough decisions like " Do I eat this mouldy bread or go without food?" In my opinion, Kidero and his boys n girls are to blame. It is there duty to make sure such buildings are not constructed and if they are, they should not be habited. Secondly, blame the owners. However, I wonder what will happen in law when owners present NEMA certificates and building plans duly authorised by Kanju. You are missing the point. I concur with you that the entire establishment has let down the people living in this building and many others accross the city and even Kenya. The point is, lets identify specific individuals within the authorities whose signatures are on the documents and have them take individual responsibilities for the tragedy. Use a simple checklist: 1. For the owners; did they follow the building codes, which professionals did they use and were they convinced that the building is stable, did they perform regular inspections etc 2. For the contractor/architect, did he follow their professional building codes, do they have relevant training to construct such a building 3. Authorities (the responsible officer here and not everyone); did they approve the building plans, do the building plans meet minimum requirements, did the building follow the codes, was the building location within law etc This is because if we insist on accusing the establishment, then the case becomes too complicated to prove, we are then left with nothing. But if we focus on small steps where we narrow our focus to the individuals responsible, then other people in their position quickly learn that you pay for your sins as an individual (just like you will in heaven/hell) The building was not approved, so we do not have architects, engineers or authorities involved, its just a guy who took some crazy risk to make some coins.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:tom_boy wrote:masukuma wrote:Obi 1 Kanobi wrote:Blaming Kidero/Nema for this is akin to chasing a phantom, they are responsible for all decisions affecting such constructions but ultimately, they rely on minions to do their jobs.
I read in today's papers that the 2 slumlords are to be charged with manslaughter. A fair decision as they are directly responsible for the construction.
I would also like to see a specific county employee, NEMA employee, the contractor and Architect (I am sure the last 2 do not exist) responsible for approving this building face similar charges. Let this employees implicate their bosses if they can demonstrate that negligence was delegated.
If responsibility needs to be scaled up, then why stop it at the Governor, how about take it all the way to the president, at the end of the day, he is the president of all of Kenya. I am in agreement! there is also a level of personal responsibility that we as citizens should also take. People are careless with their lives and the lives of their families. How do you live in such a house and pay rent? really? then one hears fatalistic statements like "Oh.... Mungu ndio anatuchunga"... "Oh.... Mimi ni masikini".... Listen... hata kama wewe ni masikini level gani - you should know your life is not as cheep as you think. I am sure Lucy Kibaki would have paid millions to get that "life" you have. Why would you then just live it like it doesn't matter? why relegate yourself and your family's lives to statistics to be used during campaigns??? I know there are others in the blame chain but the 1st person who should be blamed is YOU! not all "poor" people live in dangling houses... tuwache ushenzi at a personal level... seriously! we cannot continue losing lives to stupid decisions and then make these lives political fodder. Oh... Kidero.... Oh Planner... hii ni 3rd world... take care of your life and that of your loved ones. @Masukuma, I sympathise with you. May you never ever have to make tough decisions like " Do I eat this mouldy bread or go without food?" In my opinion, Kidero and his boys n girls are to blame. It is there duty to make sure such buildings are not constructed and if they are, they should not be habited. Secondly, blame the owners. However, I wonder what will happen in law when owners present NEMA certificates and building plans duly authorised by Kanju. You are missing the point. I concur with you that the entire establishment has let down the people living in this building and many others accross the city and even Kenya. The point is, lets identify specific individuals within the authorities whose signatures are on the documents and have them take individual responsibilities for the tragedy. Use a simple checklist: 1. For the owners; did they follow the building codes, which professionals did they use and were they convinced that the building is stable, did they perform regular inspections etc 2. For the contractor/architect, did he follow their professional building codes, do they have relevant training to construct such a building 3. Authorities (the responsible officer here and not everyone); did they approve the building plans, do the building plans meet minimum requirements, did the building follow the codes, was the building location within law etc This is because if we insist on accusing the establishment, then the case becomes too complicated to prove, we are then left with nothing. But if we focus on small steps where we narrow our focus to the individuals responsible, then other people in their position quickly learn that you pay for your sins as an individual (just like you will in heaven/hell) The building was not approved, so we do not have architects, engineers or authorities involved, its just a guy who took some crazy risk to make some coins. I disagree with you. The building was approved, that's why its in existence, whether formally or informally is irrelevant. Something that's not approved cannot be in Huruma collecting rent, may be it has NCC water etc. Anyone saying it was not approved is just trying to avoid responsibility. I am sure the slumlord brothers know who they have been sharing their rent with. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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