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'Brave new world' - conversation on postmodern cosmology.
ChessMaster
#101 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 10:32:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
I give up,if you cant understand what Man God is by now,its ok with me.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
Shotgun
#102 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:10:44 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/10/2008
Posts: 480
I know a dude who breathes this "God and science" stuff 24/7. Hope none of you @Chessmaster, @Wakanyugi and @tycho is called Lawrence.
ChessMaster
#103 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:14:40 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Not me.Very few people know me.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
digitek1
#104 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:19:26 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
ChessMaster wrote:
I give up,if you cant understand what Man God is by now,its ok with me.

If its means Godlike man then i do. if it means man=God then truce. But will pray for yousmile
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
tycho
#105 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:19:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Digitek, How can you justify a statement like, 'Perceptions are illusory?'

1. If you are saying ALL perceptions are illusory, then even this conversation is illusory. Is it?

What I am positing is, SOME perceptions are illusory.

That is why we agree that beyond the cup is the act of creation, and that there are distinctions of Trinity in God.

But if I may ask, how would you communicate that fact to me, while after all, ALL perceptions are illusory?

Hahaha! What have I just done? How do you know?

Man God has faith in perception, and, has the ability to tell Truth from NOT TRUTH, and, HE can communicate these FACTS to others.

Your belief to the contrary, is most surprising. How can faith be groundless? How can Life be groundless?

I am asserting that humanity has the ability to access, order, and use facts; and even more, he can communicate these facts, to others.

And He can do it because he has real tools that help him to distinguish facts from illusions.

These tools and methods also form part of his spirituality.
tycho
#106 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:25:28 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
digitek1 wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
I give up,if you cant understand what Man God is by now,its ok with me.

If its means Godlike man then i do. if it means man=God then truce. But will pray for yousmile


You must remember, that it this matter that led to Socrates' death.

And as I am Spartan, my sword is out. Only surrender will help here.

tycho
#107 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:27:17 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Shotgun wrote:
I know a dude who breathes this "God and science" stuff 24/7. Hope none of you @Chessmaster, @Wakanyugi and @tycho is called Lawrence.


Why do you hope?
tycho
#108 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:31:50 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
We all agree.The universe is everything,all inclusive.Then what lies beyond is nothing.


We can now begin to construct ideal algorithms for Scientific and Religious work.

Answers to questions posed can then be deduced from these algorithms.


What questions do you want us to ponder on?


Knowledge.
ChessMaster
#109 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:54:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
We all agree.The universe is everything,all inclusive.Then what lies beyond is nothing.


We can now begin to construct ideal algorithms for Scientific and Religious work.

Answers to questions posed can then be deduced from these algorithms.


What questions do you want us to ponder on?


Knowledge.


Where do you see the limits of knowledge?

@digitek1 - Thank you.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#110 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:25:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
We all agree.The universe is everything,all inclusive.Then what lies beyond is nothing.


We can now begin to construct ideal algorithms for Scientific and Religious work.

Answers to questions posed can then be deduced from these algorithms.


What questions do you want us to ponder on?


Knowledge.


Where do you see the limits of knowledge?

@digitek1 - Thank you.


Knowledge is limited to our powers to perceive, and our powers to form ideas and concepts, and to test them to ascertain facts. And finally knowledge is limited by how we communicate.
ChessMaster
#111 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:35:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
tycho wrote:

Knowledge is limited to our powers to perceive, and our powers to form ideas and concepts, and to test them to ascertain facts. And finally knowledge is limited by how we communicate.


Lets exclude spiritual perception for now. So far I know to be able to perceive the truth you've got to be able to accept it no matter what it is. But establishing truths I find difficult.Well I guess I can't expect it to be easy. Help a brother out,explain more on what you've said above.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#112 Posted : Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:44:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@ChessMaster, if all is energy, then knowledge is energy (power).

So is spirituality energy! So how can I speak truth that is not spiritual?

Besides, what is philosophy about if not the 'I' concept?
ChessMaster
#113 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2013 9:18:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
tycho wrote:
@ChessMaster, if all is energy, then knowledge is energy (power).

So is spirituality energy! So how can I speak truth that is not spiritual?

Besides, what is philosophy about if not the 'I' concept?


I like that.Never thought of it like that. I think spiritual energy is more of will.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
Wakanyugi
#114 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:05:22 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
@Tycho, Digitex, Chessmaster.

Sorry I was distracted (you should warn me when I get an honorable mention in your thread).

But I see the debate has moved on without me. And here I was, thinking you hang on to my every word. My ego has a major case with you. smile

There is little of value I can add to your conversation. Just this:

1. Human evolution travels in phases. The 'man-god' phase is usually the most difficult and confusing.

2. That we have had no eruption of bible thumping proclamations - and consignments to eternal damnation - tells me we have no real 'Christian right' on Wazua. Or maybe the thread is too boring for them.

2. 'Unity' is the TOE. All we need is proof.I am working on it. We might actually find it in our lifetimes.

3. Finally, a question: "If I could prove to you that there was no heaven, would you still believe in God?" Why/Why not?



"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#115 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:14:48 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:


Knowledge is limited to our powers to perceive, and our powers to form ideas and concepts, and to test them to ascertain facts. And finally knowledge is limited by how we communicate.


@Tycho: Sorry to barge in here. But me thinks you are wrong. This is like saying our Universe is limited to what we can perceive (or to the speed of light...or something) of course it is not.

Knowledge is not limited to what we can perceive. It is only limited to what we can imagine, if there is such a limit at all.

Recently you spoke of revolution. This is the real revolution, although it has been with us for eons:

Anything we imagine, Is.

Old man Einstein got it right, again:

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#116 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:27:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@ChessMaster, I'd say spirituality, is a quality of how an entity's perceptual system works in relation to how it should work.
Wakanyugi
#117 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:29:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:


So not unless you are saying illusion = reality, which doesn't make sense; you must be saying that the two are in fact, distinct.


My point exactly. Illusion is reality. Therefore reality is illusion. Therefore, reality is not real.

You are not real. So what are you?

YET: this illusion of reality is a valid construct that we create for many reasons. One of them is to experience contrast, for Unity has no contrast.

Here is a crazy thought: If Unity is truth, then falsehood is more important than truth. For without falsehood we can not experience truth.

That is right: you should honour the liars and sinners of this Universe for they have a critical to play
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
tycho
#118 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:34:38 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Wakanyugi, what you are thinking is supposed to be the Christian right, is actually Man God.

To prove that there's no heaven, you'd need to define new limits of human being that do not have God in it.

That is, you'd have to prove that there's no human being. Can you?

As for imagination, it is part of the perceptual system. Imagination is triggered, nourished and controlled by perception.
tycho
#119 Posted : Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:50:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Wakanyugi wrote:
tycho wrote:


So not unless you are saying illusion = reality, which doesn't make sense; you must be saying that the two are in fact, distinct.


My point exactly. Illusion is reality. Therefore reality is illusion. Therefore, reality is not real.

You are not real. So what are you?

YET: this illusion of reality is a valid construct that we create for many reasons. One of them is to experience contrast, for Unity has no contrast.

Here is a crazy thought: If Unity is truth, then falsehood is more important than truth. For without falsehood we can not experience truth.

That is right: you should honour the liars and sinners of this Universe for they have a critical to play


I have been thinking about Teleporting, and its implications on daily life.

One will be able to will his/her electronic image to transact with others.

And I wouldn't say that the Teleported me is an illusion! Why? The energic flow paths and registered energy changes exist!

The selection of frequency ranges in human perceptual systems, and the general methods that can be used to order perception can be measured because their essence is energy.

So reality can only not exist if energy doesn't exist!

If energy doesn't exist, then there can neither be action nor illusion.

Falsehood is related to illusion. So a little substitution will reveal that illusion implies reality, and the two cannot be equal.
Wakanyugi
#120 Posted : Friday, February 15, 2013 12:02:53 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
tycho wrote:


That is, you'd have to prove that there's no human being. Can you?



@Tycho: First I assume you are a human 'being' even though you refused to tell me what exactly it is that you are' being.'

I think I have proved to 'you' that you don't exist. If the reality we take for granted is an illusion, how could you exist? How could heaven/hell exist?

So would you still believe in God if you knew there was no pot of honey at the end of the rainbow? You can be honest, now. You are among friends.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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