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4 family (3 bed/2bath) flat budget Ksh. 5m
jaggernaut
#101 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 9:10:28 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
Penny-Stocker wrote:
Yet another update! That's where I am as of May 24th. What's left.....
1. Painting
2. Tiling
3. Kuweka vyo
4. Kuweka kitchen cabinets and wardrobes
5. Landscaping the compound
6. Putting up parameter wall



Congratulations for the nice work. But i think you need to be careful with the 800k since the above activities might consume quite some money. There is also wiring, electrical fittings, connection to KPLC, internal doors, locks, sanitary fittings, plumbing works, septic tank, gate, ceilings etc. And the labour cost which many forget to include. Also note that fundis who do the finishing works tend to demand higher rates due to the specialized kind of work.
Penny-Stocker
#102 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:22:33 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
a4architect.com wrote:
Penny-Stocker wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
@Pennystocker. The design is perfect and the workmanship is superb, especially the hand dressed multi coloured stone facade, prodtuding windows and large balconies.

@am. the reason why @pennystocker is able to achieve a kes 30,000 per m2 building with only kes 20,000 per m2 is because
1.in the usual estimates, contracotr profit is added . In this case there is no contractor profit. He is lucky to have found high quality labour at a low cost.
2. Labour and tansport costs in Kisumu could be much lower than in Nairobi due to high cost of living, traffic jam etc etc.


A 3 bedroomed of 80m will cost you kes 1.6m.

@a4architecture: You are right about the quality workmanship at a lower cost in Kisumu. I had an estimate from a fundi from Nairobi and he quoted me around Ksh. 10m, including his labor, which was around 2m.

Three pieces of advice I'd give right away:
1. buy your own materials, i mean personally go to the hardware, ziweke kwa lorry and bring them
2. Negotiate pay in stages..i.e, how much to do the slab, after the slab is done, now negotiate for walling, then 1st floor slab, then walling....etc. You'll save a lot of $$$ and fundis will be very efficient!
3. Negotiate with all fundis individually ..i.e, mason guy, chuma guy etc....don't have them subcontract, hiyo, utafinywa!

@pennystocker..thanks for the very wise words up there. If Kenyans were to use your method, the construction industry would be very vibrant.


@a4arch: Thanks..I think most Kenyans, I said most, think that if they have Ksh. 6m in their hands and are putting up a pretty big building, they should be called boss hence delegating the duties! They should learn to roll up their sleeves and even offer to be one of the koroga guys, heck, we'd be saving at least 300/= a day on labor!

One word: Fundis are thieves, they quote 50 bags of cement when they know that they'll only need 40 bags, stealing the remaining 10 when you are not at the site!
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
Penny-Stocker
#103 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:35:29 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
jaggernaut wrote:
Penny-Stocker wrote:
Yet another update! That's where I am as of May 24th. What's left.....
1. Painting
2. Tiling
3. Kuweka vyo
4. Kuweka kitchen cabinets and wardrobes
5. Landscaping the compound
6. Putting up parameter wall



Congratulations for the nice work. But i think you need to be careful with the 800k since the above activities might consume quite some money. There is also
wiring....the wiring has been fully done in all units, .....electrical fittings.... all electrical fittings are bought, once painting is done, my electrician will finish his part - labor was already figured out, ...connection to KPLC....Fully paid for plus meters (5), should be getting connected this week, next week latest,
..... internal doors, locks, sanitary fittings, (yet to be done).....plumbing works, septic tank.....all done...septic tank was the very finished 2nd after a borehole project
......, gate, ceilings etc.(yet to be done) And the labour cost which many forget to include. Also note that fundis who do the finishing works tend to demand higher rates due to the specialized kind of work.


@ jaggernaut..thank you! Muchas gracias! Now, out of your concerns, I have the above in blue done and finished! So I think I can make it with around 800k....I have budgeted 1.5m, just in case!

What's not color coded is yet to be done i.e internal doors, locks, sanitary fittings,gate, ceilings etc........and you're also right about fundis who do the fitting, they're quoting high numbers but again, the difference from one to another is as high as 30k, and they both seem to have done good work, from their work samples that i've seen!
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
young
#104 Posted : Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:55:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
Penny-Stocker wrote:
young wrote:
Wakanyugi wrote:
Penny-Stocker wrote:

....I bet some people here on Wazua say they have projects kwa mdomo tu...why can't we all start posting our progress pics....!


@Penny-Stocker: you might recall I started my project in Ruiru at about the same time as you did. Mine was a personal simba, not rental, although I am getting tempted. Three bedroom maisonette with one guest room on a quarter acre plot.

I am not able to post photos, but I can report that it is all roofed. What remains are the fittings, finishes and septic tank. So far it has cost me just under 4M - all savings.

I have learned many things. For instance while Decra roofing is more expensive than clay tiles you make up for the extra cost through reduced roofing timber, utility and presentability.

Some wise people on this board have often said that, when it comes to a building project, the most difficult thing is to start. Wise words. Don't wait to have all your ducks in a row - just start and new problems will suggest new solutions as you go.

The fundi I hired turned out to be a god-send. Very efficient and honest fellow. I am also planning to construct two more units same size in about a years time.

Thank you to the Wazua family for the inspiration



Congrats @wakanyugi, hope you will also consider building some rental units for income
now that you know the techniques.
I am one of the "late converts" in real estate and my experience in the 5 past years has really paid off, though one should compliment with blue chip stocks to balance it.

@young...buy some dividend paying stocks and you'll never look back! From your posts, I am assuming that you're in those already! I love real estate because it'll appreciate on top of collecting rent!



Thanks for your advise @Penny-Stocker , I am already doing that. Many of us appreciate your
practical write up on this project both novice like us and professionals like amiable @a4architect.

You are lucky at your age (sub 30) to achieve this feat and to be emboldened to take the bold step in real estate. I actually started mine very late @ 46 years as am now 51 (in 2008 after the world wide stocks debacle), and thanks to God I am on my third building project.
In future consider replicating this feat in Nairobi environ , the cost of building may be higher but the returns will be better. You know the up coming areas more than me (Kitengela, Rairu, Kiambu Road, westlands suburb,and thika road environ etc).

I do not whether this is practicable in Kenya, here in Nigeria to reduce your cost of building in high brow Nairobi for example, you can construct a temporary plywood house, do a borehole etc and actually export your key workmen from say Kisumu to Nairobi and pay them the Kisumu rate not the Nairobi rate, this brings down your cost of labour. You can equally move your work tools (if you bought them) like wheel barrow, shovel etc as I believe the cost of renting them is high in Nairobi.
Also consider incorporating servants quarters in your project it attracts a higher rent if you prefer to rent , or it may be useful to your siblings and extended family or you reserve for yourself any time the LANDLORD or his family make periodic visit.


Once again Asante Sana.
The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
Penny-Stocker
#105 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 12:48:47 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
young wrote:


Thanks for your advise @Penny-Stocker , I am already doing that. Many of us appreciate your
practical write up on this project both novice like us and professionals like amiable @a4architect.

You are lucky at your age (sub 30) to achieve this feat and to be emboldened to take the bold step in real estate. I actually started mine very late @ 46 years as am now 51 (in 2008 after the world wide stocks debacle), and thanks to God I am on my third building project.
In future consider replicating this feat in Nairobi environ , the cost of building may be higher but the returns will be better. You know the up coming areas more than me (Kitengela, Rairu, Kiambu Road, westlands suburb,and thika road environ etc).

I do not whether this is practicable in Kenya, here in Nigeria to reduce your cost of building in high brow Nairobi for example, you can construct a temporary plywood house, do a borehole etc and actually export your key workmen from say Kisumu to Nairobi and pay them the Kisumu rate not the Nairobi rate, this brings down your cost of labour. You can equally move your work tools (if you bought them) like wheel barrow, shovel etc as I believe the cost of renting them is high in Nairobi.
Also consider incorporating servants quarters in your project it attracts a higher rent if you prefer to rent , or it may be useful to your siblings and extended family or you reserve for yourself any time the LANDLORD or his family make periodic visit.


Once again Asante Sana.


@ Young, thanks for the props.It's never too early to start in real estate and at 29, I think I have a lot more room to make mistakes, if I happen to, and still be able to fix them and learn from them.

To the other point, the main reason why I chose Kisumu was because of the following;
1. I already had the land - which I acquired in 2009 at a very cheap rate.
2. I know and understand the place.
3. There's chronic shortage of proper housing in Kisumu.
4. Labor is still relatively cheap due to high number of unemployment - I could take my Kisumu fundi to Nairobi and have him do the work for me and pay the Kisumu rate, that's an awesome idea!

I am thinking about Nairobi, it just seems like the land prices are so prohibitive. Kitengela is hot right now..or may be Athi River with all the planned colleges around there.A plan for Nairobi in the pipeline, I just have to bite what I can chew at the moment!

Muchas gracias!
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
a4architect.com
#106 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:27:06 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@penny stocker. Its possible to ensure such low costs of construction by ensuring low cost of living to the fundis. You can build them site houses and provide food in bulk from upcountry for the duration of the construction. On a lighter note,all basic human needs i.e food, shelter etc, including aeronautical engineering facilities can be provided in bulk from upcountry .
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
kiriita
#107 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:14:38 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/20/2008
Posts: 437
a4architect.com wrote:
On a lighter note,all basic human needs i.e food, shelter etc, including aeronautical engineering facilities can be provided in bulk from upcountry .


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
young
#108 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:23:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria

In essence you can use your "winning team" at affordable cost anyway within your country for construction purposes. Some will be very excited to come as they may not have visited Nairobi before.
I made this kind of arrangement in my first off shore building project in Tema, Accra Ghana.
Key Fundi was "exported" to Accra and it made business sense as I was able to minimise cost and create adventure to the reliable fundis. They were also a positive influence to the local work force in their pricing, quality of work, and optimal use of materials.
The motivation to use this approach was because all local fundi's gave us exhorbitant construction cost estimates, so I opted to bring
key players of our team and that helped to drive down the labour cost irrespective of the extra cost of temporary house on site and basic amenities.


The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
young
#109 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:46:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2007
Posts: 2,037
Location: Lagos, Nigeria
a4architect.com wrote:
@penny stocker. Its possible to ensure such low costs of construction by ensuring low cost of living to the fundis. You can build them site houses and provide food in bulk from upcountry for the duration of the construction. On a lighter note,all basic human needs i.e food, shelter etc, including aeronautical engineering facilities can be provided in bulk from upcountry .



Spot on !
The wazua spirit as members is to educate and inform and learn from others within the limit of what we know in any chosen area irrespective of our differences in tribes, nationalities, etc. .
Rapudox
#110 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:46:31 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 12/30/2010
Posts: 65
Location: Europe
@Pennystocker...Totally speechless....I spent via Relatives 4M Kshs constructing a 3 Bed Bungalow (would post the pic, if only i knew how on wazua) in Siaya and here you are presenting 4 Flats for almost the same price. Sad Sad . I knew i got ripped off. Its really hard if you aint on site.
That work is amazing Mr. Pennystocker, great inspiration for me with my 1/2 acre in Riat/Kanyakwar. Its good to know that it can be done.
Thank you.
Penny-Stocker
#111 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:32:29 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
Rapudox wrote:
@Pennystocker...Totally speechless....I spent via Relatives 4M Kshs constructing a 3 Bed Bungalow (would post the pic, if only i knew how on wazua) in Siaya and here you are presenting 4 Flats for almost the same price. Sad Sad . I knew i got ripped off. Its really hard if you aint on site.
That work is amazing Mr. Pennystocker, great inspiration for me with my 1/2 acre in Riat/Kanyakwar. Its good to know that it can be done.
Thank you.


@Rapudo, mos Jakababa! Sometimes, the relatives are not the most reliable people...they always think you have cash galore! Sorry about your them ripping you off!

How to post pictures of wazua!

1. Go to http://photobucket.com/
2. Create an account
3. Upload the pictures there by creating an album
4. Click on individual picture, look on the right hand side of the picture, there, you'll get a URL for posting direct pics
5. Click on that URL, it'll copy right away
6. Paste that URL in your Wazua post
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
Penny-Stocker
#112 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 3:38:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
Rapudox wrote:
@Pennystocker...Totally speechless....I spent via Relatives 4M Kshs constructing a 3 Bed Bungalow (would post the pic, if only i knew how on wazua) in Siaya and here you are presenting 4 Flats for almost the same price. Sad Sad . I knew i got ripped off. Its really hard if you aint on site.
That work is amazing Mr. Pennystocker, great inspiration for me with my 1/2 acre in Riat/Kanyakwar. Its good to know that it can be done.
Thank you.

Rapudo, si indusna your RIAT/Kanyakwar kadogo omera...I need a place for simba! Tuongee thura!
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
jaggernaut
#113 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:59:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/9/2008
Posts: 5,389
@pennystocker: i thought you were in Kenya working 'hands-on' on this mjengo and thus achieving the huge savings, kumbe you are abroad as I have seen on your post on this thread:

http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=24433#post416586

Penny-Stocker wrote:
Hello Wazuans, I am trying to make an entry into the NSE for the first time and would like some advice. I live outside Kenya and am looking for a brokerage house with good online presence and self directed trades.....
Penny-Stocker
#114 Posted : Wednesday, May 29, 2013 8:43:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
jaggernaut wrote:
@pennystocker: i thought you were in Kenya working 'hands-on' on this mjengo and thus achieving the huge savings, kumbe you are abroad as I have seen on your post on this thread:

http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=24433#post416586

Penny-Stocker wrote:
Hello Wazuans, I am trying to make an entry into the NSE for the first time and would like some advice. I live outside Kenya and am looking for a brokerage house with good online presence and self directed trades.....

@Jaggernaut, You are right I based outside Kenya....but I'm lucky to have a job that I can do from anywhere, remotely! Been in Kenya since Nov. 2012 specifically for the project. Once done in about a month, then off I'll go again! Management will be left for a company in Kisumu, at a minimal fee ofcourse. That's why I'm asking a question on the other post/thread.
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
kendata26
#115 Posted : Thursday, May 30, 2013 8:54:03 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/30/2013
Posts: 56
Location: Mini Apple
Bwana Penny,

Congrats on getting the project almost done. You've fired me up that I finally registered to the forum!


Swali on your expected rent. Is this typical or does 30K put you on the high end for Kisumu? What would you expect if you did a two bedroom?

I've been looking at Ongata Rongai and Kitengela and i'm being quoted potential rents of 18 - 24K for a two bedroom in these towns.

If I can get 30K in KSM, maybe I should redirect my attention!



Penny-Stocker wrote:
To all, like I said in my initial post, almost a year ago...it's never to early to start investing for your retirement! I'm only 29yrs and in about 4 months, I'll be collecting 120K from rent @30K per unit...on top of my 240K net salary (that's 360K)! Looking at putting up 6more units in a 5 years time, working for 5 more years after that....retirement at 40yrs! I'm loving this!

Penny-Stocker
#116 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 12:35:05 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
kendata26 wrote:
Bwana Penny,

Congrats on getting the project almost done. You've fired me up that I finally registered to the forum!


Swali on your expected rent. Is this typical or does 30K put you on the high end for Kisumu? What would you expect if you did a two bedroom?

I've been looking at Ongata Rongai and Kitengela and i'm being quoted potential rents of 18 - 24K for a two bedroom in these towns.

If I can get 30K in KSM, maybe I should redirect my attention!



Penny-Stocker wrote:
To all, like I said in my initial post, almost a year ago...it's never to early to start investing for your retirement! I'm only 29yrs and in about 4 months, I'll be collecting 120K from rent @30K per unit...on top of my 240K net salary (that's 360K)! Looking at putting up 6more units in a 5 years time, working for 5 more years after that....retirement at 40yrs! I'm loving this!



@kendata26....Take a look at my plans! These units are pretty big, hence the 30k - I could have put six 2 bedroom units on the same plot! My location is also pretty good place with lots of private homes.
On average, there are a lot of 2 bedroom units for 20k - 25k rent, depending on the location. Good luck with your venture!
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
kendata26
#117 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 4:21:18 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 5/30/2013
Posts: 56
Location: Mini Apple
Penny-Stocker wrote:
[quote=kendata26]Bwana Penny,


@kendata26....Take a look at my plans! These units are pretty big, hence the 30k - I could have put six 2 bedroom units on the same plot! My location is also pretty good place with lots of private homes.
On average, there are a lot of 2 bedroom units for 20k - 25k rent, depending on the location. Good luck with your venture!



I have...I buy it. It definitely opens the range of possibilities if returns in mashinani are as good as in Nairobi.
Tito44
#118 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 11:38:31 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 111
@Penny-Stocker
Do you have any contact where i can get mawe at good rates. Looking for 9*9 and 6*9
Penny-Stocker
#119 Posted : Friday, May 31, 2013 1:33:01 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/31/2010
Posts: 154
Tito44 wrote:
@Penny-Stocker
Do you have any contact where i can get mawe at good rates. Looking for 9*9 and 6*9


I'd just go to the quarry.....that's what I did. I took day with my fundi and we selected, well he did, all the stones wanted. We brought them to the site and they were chongoed there. I went to Kedowa quarry by the way!
“None but ourselves can free our minds.”
- Bob Marley
urstill
#120 Posted : Saturday, June 01, 2013 3:56:45 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/28/2013
Posts: 182
Penny-stocker tafadhali saidia contacts. I would like to help in building of an orphanage hapo Dago-Nyahera area. Ruoth obed kodi!!
Man must live!
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