Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
Another grenade attack in Mombasa
Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
|
kimiri wrote:@hamburger. While I respect your opinion, I think that you are out rightly wrong. The fact is that we sometimes have to draw the line. Muslim fundamentalists are fellas who think that theirs’ is the only true religion and have therefore proclaimed death unto the others. I have never come across a case where anyone has successively reasoned with them in the past and I don’t think that it is going to start with us. We should not be afraid to look at evil in the eye and deal with it. The issue we are having is a classic example of a situation where the saying “dawa yo moto ni moto” applies. @ kimiri, I concur. What hambuglar is suggesting is us non-moslems to coil our tails between our legs and do what islamic fundamentalists ask. It's either you are a moslem to them, or kaffir hence god's enemy. There has to be a line. You won't just let a goon rape your wife, defile your daughter,soil your bed, as you cry dialogue,dialogue. Sometimes you have to fight for peace. This is the time.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/23/2009 Posts: 2,375
|
mkeiyd wrote:kimiri wrote:@hamburger. While I respect your opinion, I think that you are out rightly wrong. The fact is that we sometimes have to draw the line. Muslim fundamentalists are fellas who think that theirs’ is the only true religion and have therefore proclaimed death unto the others. I have never come across a case where anyone has successively reasoned with them in the past and I don’t think that it is going to start with us. We should not be afraid to look at evil in the eye and deal with it. The issue we are having is a classic example of a situation where the saying “dawa yo moto ni moto” applies. @ kimiri, I concur. What hambuglar is suggesting is us non-moslems to coil our tails between our legs and do what islamic fundamentalists ask. It's either you are a moslem to them, or kaffir hence god's enemy. There has to be a line. You won't just let a goon rape your wife, defile your daughter,soil your bed, as you cry dialogue,dialogue. Sometimes you have to fight for peace. This is the time. Kuna methali inayosema " Amani haiji ila kwa ncha ya upanga". Its translated roughly to If you want peace be prepared for war. Otherwise everybody will step on your toes. It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
How can one fight for his faith? Can one's faith be harmed or destroyed? Can one's clothes be taken away?
Certainly not even the al shabaab can conquer faith, they themselves are 'searching' for it!
The use of arms and warfare comes when the fighter lets go of his faith-the guarantor of 'human rights' and instead protects his 'animal' rights. War is a reversion into 'a state of nature'.
It is for this reason that the Christian tradition has martyrs at the foundation; and not just martyrs, but martyrs who met violence with non violence.
So talk of war is not talk about faith.
But the Muslim may say that there is a holy war. But immediately he says it he sets himself in a trap; how will he make one who doesn't believe in such a thing understand such an idea?
One may say that the Muslim doesn't need to convince the non believer of the idea. But if that is the case, then he must give up on winning converts! (Ironically, the Sheikh must also convince himself, else we presuppose that the sheikh is 'static' or even 'dead.')
If that is so, then he must kill all other people who are non-muslims; but how can you be a muslim if there are no non Muslims?
This means that if Islam is to survive, then it must interested in having a conversation with non Muslims. If this conversation is initiated and carried out well, then it will be easier to pick out the 'criminals' and deal with the matter effectively.
We can solve this problem without so much destruction and panic.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 2,459
|
@hamburglar, I salute you for the way you push your arguments, consistently sticking to logic and the issue at hand and never getting personal. Unfortunately that cannot be said for all of us. I refuse to believe that there is a religious war going on. What we have are criminal elements bent on causing mayhem at the coast. Can our security machinery contain them ?? I have my doubts. Can dialogue work ?? Again I have my doubts but then there is little to loose in trying.
DISCLAIMER : I have been brought up in the PCEA where my mum is very high in the women's guild hierarchy; so yes am as religious as they come.
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
|
Lolest! wrote:@burglar, you may be an atheist but calling terrorism religious war is stretching it. Have you heard of mosques being attacked? It is only churches being attacked. Remember, before our troops landed in Somalia, we had only 1 case of religious conflict in Kenya-the burning of a catholic church in South B around 2000. This is terrorism. Not muslim-christian war!! Lolest, let's not be so gullible...This is a religious war...In the minds of the Muslims, they are fighting against Kaffirs (Christians and their sympathisers)....I haven't heard of mosques being attacked, but I have heard of Muslims being executed...(Rogo guy)...It might not be the work of Christians, but in the muslim minds, Kenya is a predominatly Christian country and it's Kaffirs who killed the Rogo guy or whatever his name is, so now they are fighting retaliating aganist Christians, not Kenyans, but Christians....I see how you are trying to spin it, but the bottom line is that this is a religious war with both religions hiding behind monikers like terrorists and security forces, but it's essentially Christians versus Muslims.....Muslims are supporting these goons and Christians are supporting the security forces, it's just the terminology that's being twisted because the name religious war scares the shit out of people the world over....But that's what it's boiling down to....
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
|
Lolest! wrote:Btw @hamburger, most wars are not religious. They are mostly ethnic. The rise in Islamic fundamentalism has led to a rise in religious conflict-Fact. But that does not negate the fact that the Sudanese war, the war in Somalia, DRC, Rwanda, even Kenyas PEV had nothing to do with faith. So quit blaming religion. Would u consider starting 1 thread to push your atheist agenda? Unatuchafulia threads Am not pushing any atheist agenda am just arguing for my side as much as you are arguing your side..So, how come when I post something ni kuchafua thread but when the Christians come posting, is that "kusafisha" threads? This same hatred that you have for anybody that does not believe in what you believe in is why we have these religious wars in the first place....Religions are not tolerant, if you believe in something else or nothing for that matter, you are automatically branded the enemy....And you wonder why we can never have world peace...With reasoning and attitudes like yours, supposedely the educated ones, what do you expect from the unducated ones????When religions become more tolerant and understand that it's not a competition ama kuchafuliana threads, we might have some hope for a better future...
I would go "push" my atheist agenda elsewhere, but unfortunately the wazua admin has banned me from religious threads, lol, she/he decided to go neo nazi on me for having a different opinion...What is being exhibited right here on wazua is what's going on in Mombasa..INTOLERANCE of other people who don't believe in what you believe in...It's even more shocking that the admin can take such drastic measures to silence me just because I am an atheist....You guys take your religions way too personally, I am not surprised that there is a religious war going on in Kenya, religions are extreme, they don't understand what tolerence means so what ddi we expect????....
I won't be surprised if I get completely banned from this site, as a matter of fact I didn't expect to have access today, that's just how the religious people operate, with hate, disdain and intolerance for anything different...It's sad because the onese doing it are the educated ones that should be teaching the uneducated ones about tolerance, but I see no hope, so wacha niwache kuwachafulia threads my guy...I go in peace, wacha ningoje kuwa banned for good, i know it's coming soon...lol
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
|
FRM2011 wrote:@hamburglar, I salute you for the way you push your arguments, consistently sticking to logic and the issue at hand and never getting personal. Unfortunately that cannot be said for all of us. I refuse to believe that there is a religious war going on. What we have are criminal elements bent on causing mayhem at the coast. Can our security machinery contain them ?? I have my doubts. Can dialogue work ?? Again I have my doubts but then there is little to loose in trying.
DISCLAIMER : I have been brought up in the PCEA where my mum is very high in the women's guild hierarchy; so yes am as religious as they come.
Dude, thanks for keeping it civil..The reason that I call it a religious war is because the muslims are fighting against kaffirs (Christians)....Kenya is a Christian nation and Christians are calling for retaliation, so that makes it a religious war...It's very very unfortunate and nobody wants to see that, but it is what it is...However we try to spin it..
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
|
hamburglar = QW "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
|
murchr wrote:hamburglar = QW What the hell is QW? is that some inside joke that I am not privy to?
|
|
|
Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
|
mkeiyd wrote:kimiri wrote:@hamburger. While I respect your opinion, I think that you are out rightly wrong. The fact is that we sometimes have to draw the line. Muslim fundamentalists are fellas who think that theirs’ is the only true religion and have therefore proclaimed death unto the others. I have never come across a case where anyone has successively reasoned with them in the past and I don’t think that it is going to start with us. We should not be afraid to look at evil in the eye and deal with it. The issue we are having is a classic example of a situation where the saying “dawa yo moto ni moto” applies. @ kimiri, I concur. What hambuglar is suggesting is us non-moslems to coil our tails between our legs and do what islamic fundamentalists ask. It's either you are a moslem to them, or kaffir hence god's enemy. There has to be a line. You won't just let a goon rape your wife, defile your daughter,soil your bed, as you cry dialogue,dialogue. Sometimes you have to fight for peace. This is the time. I agree, when shove comes to push, you have to defend yourself somehow...When diplomacy fails, violence might be the only alternative....But has diplomacy failed yet? Have we tried to have a civil discourse with these guys or are we just yearning for war? Let's not be so ready to throw down punches, violence should always be a last resort....
Let's exhaust all options but start by having a dialogue and see where that goes....You never know, the talks might be fruitful....Hii mambo ya kurusha mangumi bila kufikiria is what makes people idiots....You step on somebody shoes, suddenly amerusha mangumi, lol, primitivity at it's best..That's what's being displayed here, imulsive thinking, you would think this site was full of teenagers who can't think critically.
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
Another grenade attack in Mombasa
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|