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Kenya Airways...why ignore..
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:Musimo wrote:Two quick ones. 1. Government says they might look to buy back KQ and make it majority government owned shares-wise, KAA is government owned through and through. What would happen if KAA 'decided' to own shares in KQ, then give them 'preferential' treatment at all KAA airports (Read JKIA, MIA) KQ flies to, would this serve the same purpose as the proposed SPV KQ is targetting with KAA on JKIA (maybe MIA), in return for KQ making JKIA their hub (though KQ have no option on this)? 2. Why hasnt KQ gone out to revive/start cargo? most routes within the continent rely on cargo going out to European airports before it is flown back to the continent, that would be a fabulous starting point for them to commence and grow their cargo wing. Most airlines the would over sometimes rely on the cargo business to keep them going when the going gets tough, why not KQ? Interpretition = Taxpayers money will be used to buy off the bankers who own 38% of KQ. Unlikely. Remember that there is the Mandatory Convert plus GoK guarantee for all future lending to KQ. It will benefit a bank more to remain as a shareholder No banker is interested in ownership equity. Take that to the bank. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,567 Location: nairobi
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sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:Musimo wrote:Two quick ones. 1. Government says they might look to buy back KQ and make it majority government owned shares-wise, KAA is government owned through and through. What would happen if KAA 'decided' to own shares in KQ, then give them 'preferential' treatment at all KAA airports (Read JKIA, MIA) KQ flies to, would this serve the same purpose as the proposed SPV KQ is targetting with KAA on JKIA (maybe MIA), in return for KQ making JKIA their hub (though KQ have no option on this)? 2. Why hasnt KQ gone out to revive/start cargo? most routes within the continent rely on cargo going out to European airports before it is flown back to the continent, that would be a fabulous starting point for them to commence and grow their cargo wing. Most airlines the would over sometimes rely on the cargo business to keep them going when the going gets tough, why not KQ? Interpretition = Taxpayers money will be used to buy off the bankers who own 38% of KQ. Unlikely. Remember that there is the Mandatory Convert plus GoK guarantee for all future lending to KQ. It will benefit a bank more to remain as a shareholder No banker is interested in ownership equity. Take that to the bank. That's not what MOO said upon taking up his board seat last year at KQ.. YouTube it. Remember its only JBB that didn't opt for KQLC membership.. 11 other banks joined the shareholders list with 10 year gestational period. Also remember that the conversion price was KES 2.13 * 4 hence they cannot sell below KES 8.52.. Simple logic COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:Musimo wrote:Two quick ones. 1. Government says they might look to buy back KQ and make it majority government owned shares-wise, KAA is government owned through and through. What would happen if KAA 'decided' to own shares in KQ, then give them 'preferential' treatment at all KAA airports (Read JKIA, MIA) KQ flies to, would this serve the same purpose as the proposed SPV KQ is targetting with KAA on JKIA (maybe MIA), in return for KQ making JKIA their hub (though KQ have no option on this)? 2. Why hasnt KQ gone out to revive/start cargo? most routes within the continent rely on cargo going out to European airports before it is flown back to the continent, that would be a fabulous starting point for them to commence and grow their cargo wing. Most airlines the would over sometimes rely on the cargo business to keep them going when the going gets tough, why not KQ? Interpretition = Taxpayers money will be used to buy off the bankers who own 38% of KQ. Unlikely. Remember that there is the Mandatory Convert plus GoK guarantee for all future lending to KQ. It will benefit a bank more to remain as a shareholder No banker is interested in ownership equity. Take that to the bank. That's not what MOO said upon taking up his board seat last year at KQ.. YouTube it. Remember its only JBB that didn't opt for KQLC membership.. 11 other banks joined the shareholders list with 10 year gestational period. Also remember that the conversion price was KES 2.13 * 4 hence they cannot sell below KES 8.52.. Simple logic Simple logic indeed but Common Sense says that faced with a technically insolvent KQ, with their debt subordinated to the Aircraft Leases, and unable to distress against GOK, the Local Bankers' hand was forced. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/28/2015 Posts: 1,247
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sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:Musimo wrote:Two quick ones. 1. Government says they might look to buy back KQ and make it majority government owned shares-wise, KAA is government owned through and through. What would happen if KAA 'decided' to own shares in KQ, then give them 'preferential' treatment at all KAA airports (Read JKIA, MIA) KQ flies to, would this serve the same purpose as the proposed SPV KQ is targetting with KAA on JKIA (maybe MIA), in return for KQ making JKIA their hub (though KQ have no option on this)? 2. Why hasnt KQ gone out to revive/start cargo? most routes within the continent rely on cargo going out to European airports before it is flown back to the continent, that would be a fabulous starting point for them to commence and grow their cargo wing. Most airlines the would over sometimes rely on the cargo business to keep them going when the going gets tough, why not KQ? Interpretition = Taxpayers money will be used to buy off the bankers who own 38% of KQ. Unlikely. Remember that there is the Mandatory Convert plus GoK guarantee for all future lending to KQ. It will benefit a bank more to remain as a shareholder No banker is interested in ownership equity. Take that to the bank. QLC IS A FORCED MARRIAGE. THEY ARE IN IT FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN, WHAT DID I JUST SAY. ,Behold, a sower went forth to sow;....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,567 Location: nairobi
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sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:obiero wrote:sparkly wrote:Musimo wrote:Two quick ones. 1. Government says they might look to buy back KQ and make it majority government owned shares-wise, KAA is government owned through and through. What would happen if KAA 'decided' to own shares in KQ, then give them 'preferential' treatment at all KAA airports (Read JKIA, MIA) KQ flies to, would this serve the same purpose as the proposed SPV KQ is targetting with KAA on JKIA (maybe MIA), in return for KQ making JKIA their hub (though KQ have no option on this)? 2. Why hasnt KQ gone out to revive/start cargo? most routes within the continent rely on cargo going out to European airports before it is flown back to the continent, that would be a fabulous starting point for them to commence and grow their cargo wing. Most airlines the would over sometimes rely on the cargo business to keep them going when the going gets tough, why not KQ? Interpretition = Taxpayers money will be used to buy off the bankers who own 38% of KQ. Unlikely. Remember that there is the Mandatory Convert plus GoK guarantee for all future lending to KQ. It will benefit a bank more to remain as a shareholder No banker is interested in ownership equity. Take that to the bank. That's not what MOO said upon taking up his board seat last year at KQ.. YouTube it. Remember its only JBB that didn't opt for KQLC membership.. 11 other banks joined the shareholders list with 10 year gestational period. Also remember that the conversion price was KES 2.13 * 4 hence they cannot sell below KES 8.52.. Simple logic Simple logic indeed but Common Sense says that faced with a technically insolvent KQ, with their debt subordinated to the Aircraft Leases, and unable to distress against GOK, the Local Bankers' hand was forced. The banks will be crucial to the recovery efforts of KQ.. Future restructuring especially tenor renegotiations will definitely be a win-win COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/8/2018 Posts: 507 Location: Nairobi
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Let's see how wrong "experienced NSE investors" can be. I'll use bitcoin, which an elder has called takataka some time back, while strongly vouching for KQ.
As of 16th March 2019, KQ price per share: Sh. 5.56 BTC price: $3984
Will compare percentage increase/decrease after a year.
My opinion for the minority shareholders trapped in KQ: You can sell, take the loss, and plough all that cash into some BTC. It will recoup your costs, and earn you a tidy profit.
Plus let's face it-at this point KQ is just frustrating y'all (yes, even more than those in BTC with its wild price swings). So many blindspots, hidden players calling the shots, still in loss territory, and minority shareholders not knowing who is looking out for their interests.
But am not a prophet, so let's check back in a year.
Ni hayo tu kwa sasa.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,567 Location: nairobi
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rwitre wrote:Let's see how wrong "experienced NSE investors" can be. I'll use bitcoin, which an elder has called takataka some time back, while strongly vouching for KQ.
As of 16th March 2019, KQ price per share: Sh. 5.56 BTC price: $3984
Will compare percentage increase/decrease after a year.
My opinion for the minority shareholders trapped in KQ: You can sell, take the loss, and plough all that cash into some BTC. It will recoup your costs, and earn you a tidy profit.
Plus let's face it-at this point KQ is just frustrating y'all (yes, even more than those in BTC with its wild price swings). So many blindspots, hidden players calling the shots, still in loss territory, and minority shareholders not knowing who is looking out for their interests.
But am not a prophet, so let's check back in a year.
Ni hayo tu kwa sasa. Wewe I bet you 10,000 taslim. KQ will touch KES 15 before mid next year COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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rwitre wrote:Let's see how wrong "experienced NSE investors" can be. I'll use bitcoin, which an elder has called takataka some time back, while strongly vouching for KQ.
As of 16th March 2019, KQ price per share: Sh. 5.56 BTC price: $3984
Will compare percentage increase/decrease after a year.
My opinion for the minority shareholders trapped in KQ: You can sell, take the loss, and plough all that cash into some BTC. It will recoup your costs, and earn you a tidy profit.
Plus let's face it-at this point KQ is just frustrating y'all (yes, even more than those in BTC with its wild price swings). So many blindspots, hidden players calling the shots, still in loss territory, and minority shareholders not knowing who is looking out for their interests.
But am not a prophet, so let's check back in a year.
Ni hayo tu kwa sasa. KQ flies passengers and cargo all over the world, employs hundreds directly and thousands indirectly, pays billions in taxes to GOK. What does bitcoin do? Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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obiero wrote:rwitre wrote:Let's see how wrong "experienced NSE investors" can be. I'll use bitcoin, which an elder has called takataka some time back, while strongly vouching for KQ.
As of 16th March 2019, KQ price per share: Sh. 5.56 BTC price: $3984
Will compare percentage increase/decrease after a year.
My opinion for the minority shareholders trapped in KQ: You can sell, take the loss, and plough all that cash into some BTC. It will recoup your costs, and earn you a tidy profit.
Plus let's face it-at this point KQ is just frustrating y'all (yes, even more than those in BTC with its wild price swings). So many blindspots, hidden players calling the shots, still in loss territory, and minority shareholders not knowing who is looking out for their interests.
But am not a prophet, so let's check back in a year.
Ni hayo tu kwa sasa. Wewe I bet you 10,000 taslim. KQ will touch KES 15 before mid next year KQ must takeover JKIA or die https://www.theeastafric...558-15dhd7kz/index.html
Best to let it die, start off with a clean JamboJet Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,134 Location: Nairobi
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@sparkly - Why do you want to hurt someone's feelings? “There is actually no way KQ can be profitable in its current state. I don’t know how to do that,” Mr Mikosz said. “The pilots are overpaid and the workforce bloated, bleeding the airline to death,” he said. In Mr Makosz's view, KQ should be delisted from the Nairobi Securities Exchange to facilitate a quieter turnaround away from the noise of minority shareholders. Mr Mikosz took a swipe at his predecessors Titus Naikuni and Mbuvi Ngunze, for bringing KQ to its current predicament. Problems were compounded in 2017 when the airline was forced into a bad restructuring programme. https://www.theeastafric...8558-15dhd7kz/index.htmlGreedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/1/2014 Posts: 906 Location: sky
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https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/opinion/Proposed-deal-on-JKIA-in-best-interest-of-Kenya/440808-5028386-8yvt9wz/index.htmlWhat seems to have escaped most of the ill-informed commentators is that the position of JKIA and Nairobi as a financial and business hub has been deteriorating over the last 10 years. Just look at what Ethiopia is doing at its revamped Bole Airport. Both passengers and cargo are moving to Addis Ababa. Why? Because their government has decided to invest in both its airline and airport as a strategic move for the country. Rwanda is doing the same. There are only two emotions in the stock market, fear and hope. The problem is, you hope when you should fear and fear when you should hope
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,567 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:@sparkly - Why do you want to hurt someone's feelings? “There is actually no way KQ can be profitable in its current state. I don’t know how to do that,” Mr Mikosz said. “The pilots are overpaid and the workforce bloated, bleeding the airline to death,” he said. In Mr Makosz's view, KQ should be delisted from the Nairobi Securities Exchange to facilitate a quieter turnaround away from the noise of minority shareholders. Mr Mikosz took a swipe at his predecessors Titus Naikuni and Mbuvi Ngunze, for bringing KQ to its current predicament. Problems were compounded in 2017 when the airline was forced into a bad restructuring programme. https://www.theeastafric...558-15dhd7kz/index.html
The JKIA must be gained by KQ or I am sunk. Well at least @maka has achieved his objective of forcing Sebastian out via sabotage including labor unrest and intentional malicious damage by the technical team to three aircraft in the last 6 months. As I have stated here since 2012, KQ employees are the main problem at KQ and not the airline industry itself.. Kenya has reasonable visitor traffic to ensure a profitable KQ, but the staff have other ideas including collusion with travel agents to drive traffic away from KQ to competition for a cut. Imagine that COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/20/2008 Posts: 503
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obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:@sparkly - Why do you want to hurt someone's feelings? “There is actually no way KQ can be profitable in its current state. I don’t know how to do that,” Mr Mikosz said. “The pilots are overpaid and the workforce bloated, bleeding the airline to death,” he said. In Mr Makosz's view, KQ should be delisted from the Nairobi Securities Exchange to facilitate a quieter turnaround away from the noise of minority shareholders. Mr Mikosz took a swipe at his predecessors Titus Naikuni and Mbuvi Ngunze, for bringing KQ to its current predicament. Problems were compounded in 2017 when the airline was forced into a bad restructuring programme. https://www.theeastafric...558-15dhd7kz/index.html
The JKIA must be gained by KQ or I am sunk. Well at least @maka has achieved his objective of forcing Sebastian out via sabotage including labor unrest and intentional malicious damage by the technical team to three aircraft in the last 6 months. As I have stated here since 2012, KQ employees are the main problem at KQ and not the airline industry itself.. Kenya has reasonable visitor traffic to ensure a profitable KQ, but the staff have other ideas including collusion with travel agents to drive traffic away from KQ to competition for a cut. Imagine that .....and yet with all that info, you still hope for returns from this monkey
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,567 Location: nairobi
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xxxxx wrote:obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:@sparkly - Why do you want to hurt someone's feelings? “There is actually no way KQ can be profitable in its current state. I don’t know how to do that,” Mr Mikosz said. “The pilots are overpaid and the workforce bloated, bleeding the airline to death,” he said. In Mr Makosz's view, KQ should be delisted from the Nairobi Securities Exchange to facilitate a quieter turnaround away from the noise of minority shareholders. Mr Mikosz took a swipe at his predecessors Titus Naikuni and Mbuvi Ngunze, for bringing KQ to its current predicament. Problems were compounded in 2017 when the airline was forced into a bad restructuring programme. https://www.theeastafric...558-15dhd7kz/index.html
The JKIA must be gained by KQ or I am sunk. Well at least @maka has achieved his objective of forcing Sebastian out via sabotage including labor unrest and intentional malicious damage by the technical team to three aircraft in the last 6 months. As I have stated here since 2012, KQ employees are the main problem at KQ and not the airline industry itself.. Kenya has reasonable visitor traffic to ensure a profitable KQ, but the staff have other ideas including collusion with travel agents to drive traffic away from KQ to competition for a cut. Imagine that .....and yet with all that info, you still hope for returns from this monkey Returns will come because GoK will not let the firm die.. You expect me to sell at 78% loss position? I will take my chances and wait to see how it ends.. COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/20/2008 Posts: 503
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obiero wrote:xxxxx wrote:obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:@sparkly - Why do you want to hurt someone's feelings? “There is actually no way KQ can be profitable in its current state. I don’t know how to do that,” Mr Mikosz said. “The pilots are overpaid and the workforce bloated, bleeding the airline to death,” he said. In Mr Makosz's view, KQ should be delisted from the Nairobi Securities Exchange to facilitate a quieter turnaround away from the noise of minority shareholders. Mr Mikosz took a swipe at his predecessors Titus Naikuni and Mbuvi Ngunze, for bringing KQ to its current predicament. Problems were compounded in 2017 when the airline was forced into a bad restructuring programme. https://www.theeastafric...558-15dhd7kz/index.html
The JKIA must be gained by KQ or I am sunk. Well at least @maka has achieved his objective of forcing Sebastian out via sabotage including labor unrest and intentional malicious damage by the technical team to three aircraft in the last 6 months. As I have stated here since 2012, KQ employees are the main problem at KQ and not the airline industry itself.. Kenya has reasonable visitor traffic to ensure a profitable KQ, but the staff have other ideas including collusion with travel agents to drive traffic away from KQ to competition for a cut. Imagine that .....and yet with all that info, you still hope for returns from this monkey Returns will come because GoK will not let the firm die.. You expect me to sell at 78% loss position? I will take my chances and wait to see how it ends.. Sometimes the best thing to do when u find yourself in a hole is to stop digging. Govt not letting KQ die is not slang for you making money off KQ stock. At 78% loss, you need kq to rise by 156% just to break even. You need miracles and blessings my brother. With Mikosz's most recent situation analysis, and his opinion that KQ should be delisted to sort itself quietly away from the likes of you minority shareholders, that staff are overpaid, that govt patronage is mandatory for KQ, the writing's on the wall for u. He's given KQ at most 5 years. We have more possibility for positive returns on our ARMCement 100% write offs than your stake in KQ. You better believe Murphy's law and act accordingly. Cut your losses while u still can. Thank me later.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,134 Location: Nairobi
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@xxxx - A 78% loss needs more than a gain of 156% For our example, let's use 80% since the math is easier. A share bought at 100 is now down 80% = 20/- To get back to 100/-, it has to increase by 400% 100% gain is 20+20=40 200% gain is 40+20=60 300% gain is 60+20=80 400% gain is 80+20=100 On ARM, have you heard anything? I have written it off so anything is pure profit. The profit/gain from KK has more than covered any losses I have made in the past 5 years! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,567 Location: nairobi
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VituVingiSana wrote:@xxxx - A 78% loss needs more than a gain of 156%
For our example, let's use 80% since the math is easier. A share bought at 100 is now down 80% = 20/- To get back to 100/-, it has to increase by 400% 100% gain is 20+20=40 200% gain is 40+20=60 300% gain is 60+20=80 400% gain is 80+20=100
On ARM, have you heard anything? I have written it off so anything is pure profit. The profit/gain from KK has more than covered any losses I have made in the past 5 years!
Unfortunately no. I have heard nothing on ARM. Remember, dead men tell no tales COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,567 Location: nairobi
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xxxxx wrote:obiero wrote:xxxxx wrote:obiero wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:@sparkly - Why do you want to hurt someone's feelings? “There is actually no way KQ can be profitable in its current state. I don’t know how to do that,” Mr Mikosz said. “The pilots are overpaid and the workforce bloated, bleeding the airline to death,” he said. In Mr Makosz's view, KQ should be delisted from the Nairobi Securities Exchange to facilitate a quieter turnaround away from the noise of minority shareholders. Mr Mikosz took a swipe at his predecessors Titus Naikuni and Mbuvi Ngunze, for bringing KQ to its current predicament. Problems were compounded in 2017 when the airline was forced into a bad restructuring programme. https://www.theeastafric...558-15dhd7kz/index.html
The JKIA must be gained by KQ or I am sunk. Well at least @maka has achieved his objective of forcing Sebastian out via sabotage including labor unrest and intentional malicious damage by the technical team to three aircraft in the last 6 months. As I have stated here since 2012, KQ employees are the main problem at KQ and not the airline industry itself.. Kenya has reasonable visitor traffic to ensure a profitable KQ, but the staff have other ideas including collusion with travel agents to drive traffic away from KQ to competition for a cut. Imagine that .....and yet with all that info, you still hope for returns from this monkey Returns will come because GoK will not let the firm die.. You expect me to sell at 78% loss position? I will take my chances and wait to see how it ends.. Sometimes the best thing to do when u find yourself in a hole is to stop digging. Govt not letting KQ die is not slang for you making money off KQ stock. At 78% loss, you need kq to rise by 156% just to break even. You need miracles and blessings my brother. With Mikosz's most recent situation analysis, and his opinion that KQ should be delisted to sort itself quietly away from the likes of you minority shareholders, that staff are overpaid, that govt patronage is mandatory for KQ, the writing's on the wall for u. He's given KQ at most 5 years. We have more possibility for positive returns on our ARMCement 100% write offs than your stake in KQ. You better believe Murphy's law and act accordingly. Cut your losses while u still can. Thank me later. Hakuna kitu mpya unaniambia.. I am ready to loose 100% and fully provide for the same but I sense that a turnaround is imminent.. That's why I remain inside https://www.businessdail...12580-13ol23y/index.html COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/23/2009 Posts: 13,567 Location: nairobi
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Michael Joseph speaks about the ill-informed commentators https://www.nation.co.ke...28386-8yvt9wz/index.html COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,703 Location: NAIROBI
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Merging KQ with JKIA doesn;t sort out the structural inefficiencies of KQ. KQ workers and pilots are among the highest in Africa and in the world if you look at it's revenues. Staff costs as a percentage of revenue. Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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