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SHARES versus REAL ESTATE
dunkang
#81 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2015 3:28:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
madebe wrote:
....... but try selling your piece that is when you realise that the prices being mentioned are hot air....i've tried selling land in KBC and Utawala and i know.....

Sad Sad Sad
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tom_boy
#82 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2015 4:00:05 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
S.Mutaga III wrote:
tom_boy wrote:
Either shares or real estate will give good returns for long investment horizon. However, what matters most is the specific share one is considering buying vs the specific real estate one is considering. The other factor is liquidity. Here, shares win hands down. Also, Good quality shares will act as security for a loan with much less hussle and expense than compared with using land as security.

Kindly explain the highlighted part. What is the procedure? By how much do they discount the shares while valuing them, because I cant accept the security to be valued at more than 20% below market prices


Last I checked, you get 60% of the value of shares.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
Fyatu
#83 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2015 4:14:50 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/20/2011
Posts: 1,820
Location: Nakuru
madebe wrote:
The debate about shares vs real estate has been here in wazua for a long time. I am invested in half -real estate and NSE. I however love NSE because of two reasons. The prices are real and easy to obtain and two the shares are liquid. The problem of land is that it is not readily liquid and you hear about the prices but try selling your piece that is when you realise that the prices being mentioned are hot air....i've tried selling land in KBC and Utawala and i know.....


I can relate.......Applause Applause
Dumb money becomes dumb only when it listens to smart money
Horton
#84 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 8:12:24 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 8/30/2007
Posts: 1,558
Location: Nairobi
This has always been a million dollar question.

"Cytonn research projects the real estate sector to have the highest return on investment at 23.8 percent compared to investment in other markets that includes the public market with fixed Income and equities projected to have a 15 percent return in 2015."

http://www.capitalfm.co....-sector-is-a-gold-mine/

I used to have stocks as my main portfolio, despite making money in stocks I have now i have migrated to real estate. Since the last 4 years, my ROI is at 10% in terms of rental returns, and capital gains are 29% compounded per year minimum. Most having been a steady 36.8% per year just 1 or 2 laggards, bringing the average down. Basically, we have doubled our investment and then some Rent escalations are between 5-7% yearly. The mortgaged ones are also receiving rent equivalent to or higher than the monthly repayments. Putting us in positive cashflow. The inconsistency in stocks was annoying,

Buying real estate in good areas, you are assured of Capital appreciation and solid rental returns with assured rent escalation. In stocks, this maybe a hit or a miss. There is no real consistency, you don't run the company, so you don't really know whats happening save from the press, twitter etc. However, everyone has a calling, despite the fact that, I made mullah in stocks, my calling was in real estate. Everyone is different. Choose your area and specialise in it.
heri
#85 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 8:53:56 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/14/2011
Posts: 834
Location: nairobi
Horton wrote:
This has always been a million dollar question.

"Cytonn research projects the real estate sector to have the highest return on investment at 23.8 percent compared to investment in other markets that includes the public market with fixed Income and equities projected to have a 15 percent return in 2015."

http://www.capitalfm.co....-sector-is-a-gold-mine/

I used to have stocks as my main portfolio, despite making money in stocks I have now i have migrated to real estate. Since the last 4 years, my ROI is at 10% in terms of rental returns, and capital gains are 29% compounded per year minimum. Most having been a steady 36.8% per year just 1 or 2 laggards, bringing the average down. Basically, we have doubled our investment and then some Rent escalations are between 5-7% yearly. The mortgaged ones are also receiving rent equivalent to or higher than the monthly repayments. Putting us in positive cashflow. The inconsistency in stocks was annoying,

Buying real estate in good areas, you are assured of Capital appreciation and solid rental returns with assured rent escalation. In stocks, this maybe a hit or a miss. There is no real consistency, you don't run the company, so you don't really know whats happening save from the press, twitter etc. However, everyone has a calling, despite the fact that, I made mullah in stocks, my calling was in real estate. Everyone is different. Choose your area and specialise in it.


@Horton thanks for sharing. Always good to know other people's experiences.

The 10% return you mention on rent, is that on commercial property?

also is that after factoring financing costs?

Because my experience on residential property aftering factoring in financing costs of about 12% leaves me with just about 3%.
sanity
#86 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 9:45:16 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/24/2011
Posts: 407
Location: Nairobi,Kenya
Now that the discussion is on real estate,could guys please advice on the following.I have some land in which I hope to develop rentals.Now me question is,is it better to transfer the land to my company and develop as a company or I just go ahead and develop as an individual.The issue of KRA taxes is causing me this confusion.
Hope is not a strategy
mtaeric
#87 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 2:24:07 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 2/9/2015
Posts: 11
Location: juja
Haloo brilliant minds of wazua,I have been recently employed earning over 40k, am planning to invest some of my salary in something ,and as I followed the thread I got confused along the way on which investment to undertake as people are 50-50 on both,now can someone help me figure out which is best to start with at this age,am 23yrs.
jawgey
#88 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 3:09:08 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/13/2014
Posts: 386
Location: Denmark
mtaeric wrote:
Haloo brilliant minds of wazua,I have been recently employed earning over 40k, am planning to invest some of my salary in something ,and as I followed the thread I got confused along the way on which investment to undertake as people are 50-50 on both,now can someone help me figure out which is best to start with at this age,am 23yrs.


Over 40k ?!? I din't know 40k was the threshold for an investor.

Anyway this leaves a wide range of discussion points since you could even be earning a million. Continue reading through the many threads you will find a lot of priceless information
Seeing is believing
streetwise
#89 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 3:19:11 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/23/2011
Posts: 1,740
Location: Nairobi
I sugest you start with how much is availble to you for investiment, once you know what you wnat to put away every month in way of saving or taking a loan.

But my sound advise a car is not an investiment ( only if some one told me that long time ago)
mthaka
#90 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 3:19:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/30/2013
Posts: 254
mtaeric wrote:
Haloo brilliant minds of wazua,I have been recently employed earning over 40k, am planning to invest some of my salary in something ,and as I followed the thread I got confused along the way on which investment to undertake as people are 50-50 on both,now can someone help me figure out which is best to start with at this age,am 23yrs.

best advise shares need very low capitalso start with shares then graduate to real estate with 40K we really do not know what you are saving,so yes start small with share one day sell part of the shares and diversify to land and then real estate.
heri
#91 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 4:22:13 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 9/14/2011
Posts: 834
Location: nairobi
sanity wrote:
Now that the discussion is on real estate,could guys please advice on the following.I have some land in which I hope to develop rentals.Now me question is,is it better to transfer the land to my company and develop as a company or I just go ahead and develop as an individual.The issue of KRA taxes is causing me this confusion.



I would also like to understand the tax implications/benefits
mtaeric
#92 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 4:38:58 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 2/9/2015
Posts: 11
Location: juja
thanks at @mthaka and @streetwise your advice is greatly appreciated.
sparkly
#93 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 7:46:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
sanity wrote:
Now that the discussion is on real estate,could guys please advice on the following.I have some land in which I hope to develop rentals.Now me question is,is it better to transfer the land to my company and develop as a company or I just go ahead and develop as an individual.The issue of KRA taxes is causing me this confusion.


More advantageous to develop as a individual. If you develop as a company you pay tax twice, income tax at the level of the company and on dividends/salary/bonus your company pays to yourself. This is known as Economic Double Taxation.
Life is short. Live passionately.
tom_boy
#94 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2015 10:51:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/20/2007
Posts: 767
sparkly wrote:
sanity wrote:
Now that the discussion is on real estate,could guys please advice on the following.I have some land in which I hope to develop rentals.Now me question is,is it better to transfer the land to my company and develop as a company or I just go ahead and develop as an individual.The issue of KRA taxes is causing me this confusion.


More advantageous to develop as a individual. If you develop as a company you pay tax twice, income tax at the level of the company and on dividends/salary/bonus your company pays to yourself. This is known as Economic Double Taxation.


Whereas that is true, one can always make sure the company never pays dividends, and makes minimal profit. As an individual, how do you deal with depreciation and other expenses related to the rental property? Are these deducted from the gross earnings before declaring the rental earnings on the tax returns.
They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
sparkly
#95 Posted : Wednesday, April 22, 2015 7:38:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
tom_boy wrote:
sparkly wrote:
sanity wrote:
Now that the discussion is on real estate,could guys please advice on the following.I have some land in which I hope to develop rentals.Now me question is,is it better to transfer the land to my company and develop as a company or I just go ahead and develop as an individual.The issue of KRA taxes is causing me this confusion.


More advantageous to develop as a individual. If you develop as a company you pay tax twice, income tax at the level of the company and on dividends/salary/bonus your company pays to yourself. This is known as Economic Double Taxation.


Whereas that is true, one can always make sure the company never pays dividends, and makes minimal profit. As an individual, how do you deal with depreciation and other expenses related to the rental property? Are these deducted from the gross earnings before declaring the rental earnings on the tax returns.


1. Hard to make a tax loss from normal rentals. Tax on rentals is computed separately from other business of the company/ individual.

2. Depreciation (of equipment and other furnishings) and other direct expenses like interest, caretaking, repairs are deducted for all tax payers.

3. You can depreciate the building itself in special cases like hotels, factories, approved hostels etc.


.
Life is short. Live passionately.
S.Mutaga III
#96 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2015 11:25:43 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 830
I am 101% sure my landlord does not pay taxes. So I think transferring rental property to a company is a dumb move (unless you fear other legal implications like building collapsing)- but I hope everyone in wazua is sober enough not to risk other's lives. My view is that as long as demand outstrips supply in the lower market segment, tax costs can be shifted to tenants. Therefore, if you target the low income segment, you dont need to transfer to a company to minimize tax...you will either shift it or avoid it- bottomline is that the burden is not yours.
A successful man is not he who gets the best, it is he who makes the best from what he gets.
S.Mutaga III
#97 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2015 11:32:59 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 830
On another note about the topic...I think a smart investor should own both stocks and real estate. Stocks have outperformed all other asset classes including real estate. However, the differences in their performance is not large. When you consider the differences in risk between the two investments, real estate wins hands down. Real estate has slighly lower returns in the long term...but considering the risk, it is much safer (by a huge margin) compared to stocks. I am considering investing 70% of my personal portfolio in real estate going forward.
A successful man is not he who gets the best, it is he who makes the best from what he gets.
kaka2za
#98 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2015 12:11:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,057
Location: Gwitu
Stocks any day! Buy KQ at 45 sell at 7/- Buy Mumias at 40/- sell at 2/-
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#99 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2015 12:28:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,220
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
@S Mutaga i agree with you on need for both assets with a bias on land(i hear they stopped producing more land)
As @Murchr said in an earlier post,with land,you have total control as opposed to buying into a Merali company where despite a good year ,you Will still see a loss in the books Sad
@SufficientlyP
S.Mutaga III
#100 Posted : Monday, June 08, 2015 12:48:09 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 830
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic wrote:
@S Mutaga i agree with you on need for both assets with a bias on land(i hear they stopped producing more land)
As @Murchr said in an earlier post,with land,you have total control as opposed to buying into a Merali company where despite a good year ,you Will still see a loss in the books Sad

Real Estate
- Land
- Residential Property
- Commercial Property
- Hotels (lodging)
- Hostels
I am thinking hostels for cash flow purposes. Anyone here who owns hostels? kindly share your experience.
A successful man is not he who gets the best, it is he who makes the best from what he gets.
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