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I cannot be both Kenyan and Christian regarding this proposed constitution
RVP
#41 Posted : Friday, May 07, 2010 12:59:32 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 5/3/2010
Posts: 69
Weak constitution + Weak ethics = Negative consequence

Good constitution + Weak ethics = Negative consequence

Good constitution + Strong ethics = Positive consequence

Weak constitution + Strong ethics = Positive consequence
masukuma
#42 Posted : Friday, May 07, 2010 1:46:46 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
RVP, very wise. actually
Weak constitution + Strong ethics = Positive consequence will lead to
Good constitution + Strong ethics = Positive consequence
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
poundfoolish
#43 Posted : Friday, May 07, 2010 2:51:31 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
from whose point of view are we looking at ethics here?
Wendz
#44 Posted : Friday, May 07, 2010 3:10:26 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
murenj wrote:
I cannot believe that guys here have such short memories. we all know that PEV was a result of loss of confidence in the judiciary system. Now, election petitions will be determined in 60 days, and a rerun for closely presidential candidates within 30 days............ clearly no need for violence here. By the way, how many PEV survivors are still receiving aid from those churches?


Good question Murenj!!!
Wendz
#45 Posted : Friday, May 07, 2010 3:25:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
Mtu Biz wrote:

One more thing....

The source of all Good, all Justice, all Truth, all that we seek in 'strong laws and institutions'.

The source of all that we call Right and Fair and Good is God.

God as revealed in the holy scriptures and in his historically documented dealings with man.

You will be wise to seek him first.


Disclaimer (coming first before you misinterprete me and start kunikemea! I am a staunch christian)

Granted and the fact that I have a different opinion by the way, has got no bearing with how i relate to my God. As christians as we may want to be, God put us on earth where we are going to be ruled by an earthly kings... during the olden days, He Himself appointed the kings... now that we do the voting and we do not have that elaborate miracle happen as it used to during that time, this is where the laws of the land come in... same laws that were applied when Jesus was crucified and he never said that they should quite applying them and only be ruled by the word of God... this is because he knew the government had a purpose... otherwise, he wouldnt even have advocated for taxes to be paid. Why didnt he say "do not pay any more taxes to these governments especially given that the likes of zachaeus will steal your money".... that is where the constitution comes in.... Even if lets say we agree to Vote No, we still will need this constitution and the need for strong institutions is undebatable.
RVP
#46 Posted : Friday, May 07, 2010 3:43:20 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 5/3/2010
Posts: 69
poundfoolish wrote:
from whose point of view are we looking at ethics here?


Not sure. Is stealing ethical? Depends from whose point of view. Anyway, maybe I meant values. My point is even with a good constitution, people can choose to ignore it. E.g. a good constitution does not insulate a country from a military coup.
ProverB
#47 Posted : Friday, May 07, 2010 3:45:43 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/12/2010
Posts: 1,199
Location: Eastlander
poundfoolish wrote:
from whose point of view are we looking at ethics here?


poundfoolish..am not a very bright block but am reliably informed of this premese.. "The Church is the custodian of morality in any decent society"..

so, still aware am not very bright a block, it is safe to assume that point of view of the church on matters ethics and morality ought to weigh more in any discussion of a just and equitable society..

By the way..wonder what Islam, hindus et al, say of abortion, women rights..
..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
Amurabi.
#48 Posted: : Saturday, May 08, 2010 9:54:14 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 5/5/2010
Posts: 92
Good people to me i think this is a loose-loose situation not a win-loose neither a win-win situation.If we pass this draft with the flaws it has( which by the way Nzamba kitonga and his team had a chance 2 ammend)as christians we fail and loose, if we do not pass it as a contry we miss a great chance and hence loose.
Some have been thought brave because they were afraid to run away.
masukuma
#49 Posted : Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:44:52 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Ethics are not relative...so are morals.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
kadonye
#50 Posted : Sunday, May 09, 2010 3:25:19 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/30/2009
Posts: 1,390
RVP wrote:
Weak constitution + Weak ethics = Negative consequence

Good constitution + Weak ethics = Negative consequence

Good constitution + Strong ethics = Positive consequence

Weak constitution + Strong ethics = Positive consequence

you're so on pt bro.An Skerian once told us that the new katiba is the most overhyped thing in kenya.I agree.reading thru todays nation on UK election, i get that the British electoral system is prone to flaws with loose rules n many unwritten codes.yet there are no irregularities!yet we've had a clear constitn since 63 bt went on to kil 1133 people in the last election after which we blamed everybody else apart frm ourselves.(politicians-incited us, church-took sides, wakoloni stole our land etc)Yet the idiot who killed ,the 1 who commited arsön n raped r stil free somewhere waiting for 2012.If we were incited hw come we were so ready to do so many inhuman acts against fello kenyans?The ODM told us tht Kenyans were so angry that they did those acts.So angry that they raped?? The Kenyan public needs to change too
What a wicked man I am!The things I want to do,I don't do.The things I don't want to do I find myself doing
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