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Insightful take on Nairobi Real Estate
fantony
#41 Posted : Tuesday, May 26, 2009 1:35:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/6/2006
Posts: 276
i do not advocate for anyone to go across town selling apartments for 17 M.

i normally analyse property sale prices using either sale price per sqaure meter or sale price per square foot.(usually using KSh/SM).

so i fathom a 17 M apartment in Westlands to be one of:

- ordinary and recent measuring about 180-210 square meters
- furnished/hence can be used for,recent with lots of amenities from swimming pools to gyms,restaurants measuring 140 square meters

Just so McReggae is safe. Don't pay for any built property if you think it can't fetch between 0.75% - 1% of its sale price as rent per month (that is descendant to some other thing they teach in college called cap rate).

Hence that apt better be able to fetch between KSh. 125,000 to 170,000 as rent.

Is that possible for the two options above????? You tell me.
pm
#42 Posted : Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:24:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 60
@TuskerMoto; excellent thread,kudos!

I spent three months studying the NRB & Metro realstate market,this thread would have saved me plenty of legwork ;) ... despite a few ego postings the discussion has been quite insightful.

My take on Kenya realstate -

The housing market has been explosive,and we may be at the TOP (until after 2012 elections) for reasons well articulated on this thread,not because the housing demand has been met,but due to shortage of affordable supply.

For an honest professional couple with two children,the affordable mortgage is 2.5M - 3.5M,such housing is ONLY availlable in the NRB Metro outer areas as variously noted.

So,what happens to mortgages of over 10M ... expect a dramatic increase in foreclosures ...but,these will ONLY be spotty deals here and there,note,at this time banks are very coutious with their mortgage loans ...

Downtown NRB and immediate hoods Living Comfort Index is plummeting,the number of cars in town will double in under three years and going in/out of town is already a nightmare ... what I've seen in the West is conversion of vacant downtown office space into Lofts and rehab of older houses ( akin to what's happenning in Pangani,etc) ...

I reluctantly went to downtown for business appointments,goverment offices and to meet friends ... how would it be posible to do all this outside of downtown would call for decentralization of servives both private and government ....

More later ...
bwenyenye
#43 Posted : Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:38:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
Good people,

I think @pm has brought in a very good point. Once the high yeild business leave town due to endemic confusion and traffic jams,I think that most premises might be turned to residential premises. This will not be new to Nbi,it hapenned in the late 60s to 70s when everyone perferred to live in the city and Pangani was one of the furthest places to live. This trend changed in 1982.This will be preffered due to high costs of housing and high travel costs. I see this in very developed countries where architects design buildings that have both residential and commercial units in one building. Yaani,we may soon be living like the muhindi in river road. You live on top of your shop or office. Hujui jam ni nini,bad roads,matatus etc. when you think of it,it makes perfect financial sense. Do you guys see Nbi heading this way?
I Think Therefore I Am
Jamani
#44 Posted : Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:57:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
@ Bwenyenye Yes for sure,I can see zoning coming into effect just as it is in Dubai,but may be for now not to the level of dubai but some zoning is on its way coming,stories i have read in SK about an internet and media city is in the plans somewhere in kitengele,will ofcourse go with housing and if they copy paste dubai then what you mention about leaving close to your work area will be the case in that foreseen city
pm
#45 Posted : Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:18:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 60







@Jamani,@Bwenyenye,and other esteemed contributors,


What Kitengela is slated for is a 'Technology Park' akin to what one may find in Silicon Valley' (North California- San Francisco to Morgan Hill).... The Kitengela Technology Park sits next to EPZ (correct me if wrong),which is an Industrial Park. The two do not include housing,but there is plenty of land for housing development ... has not looked at proposed zoning there.

What may take place in downtown NRB maybe accelerated conversion of houses/offices into flats,already done- Rapta Road,Parklands,Westlands,Pangani,Harringgam,also,in downtown itself,I was surprised to learn that Hon. Shikuku has a flat just next to that gas station at Koinange Street (not trying to associate Hon. Shikuku with Koinange street),but we may start to find more and more people opting for a flat in downtown instead of commuter madness... Mostly in New York,DC,San Francisco,these flats are not of mixed use,they are strictly residential flats and folks are making that choice instead of many hours of commute.

Marty
#46 Posted : Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:42:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 761
Location: Nairobi
@pm,

I thot the Technology Park will be somewhere past Machakos junction along Msa road. I heard that the govt got 3000 acres they were looking for for the park at a place called Konza specifically malili ranch. I think we need to confirm some of these info so that we can position ourselves strategically.


..wise as a serpent,humble as a dove
When I admire the wonder of a sunset or the beauty
of the moon, my soul expands in worship of the Creator.
pm
#47 Posted : Wednesday, May 27, 2009 5:20:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 60

@Marty,

The Technology Park is in Kitengela ( headed towards Namanga SW) past Prof. Saitoti farm on the left,its far much bigger than 3k acres,this information has been out for at least three years ... the other interesting place is on the way to Machakos as you leave Athi River,on your left heading to Machakos,that place has terraine/hills that would make one of the finest golf courses in Kenya. All one would need is the design of ( http://www.poppyridgegol...m/virtualtour/tour.html click 'Golf Course' ) in N Cal and voila!

Enjoy the Manchester vs Barcelona/ Ronaldo vs Messi two of the worlds best soccer players ... its going to be a match to behold! ;)
FundamentAli
#48 Posted : Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:35:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
Can someone tell me what effect the return of Kenyans from the diaspora has on our property market. First they influenced the market by pushing up demand. They also dictated the style and taste of the apartments. Now I hear that some need money on their return and this might cause a supply glut.




Fundamentals + Sentiments = Position
pm
#49 Posted : Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:32:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 60







@FunAli,

I think Kenya's property market is being fuelled by-


Diaspora
UN/expatriates/diplomatic folks
Middle East money
Refugees
Illicit trades
Genuine Private Kenyan initiatives
Corruption monies
Internal readjustments in view of 2007/08 election violence
Housing demand from tourism
Asian discovery of Kenya

(I&rsquo;m 90% confidence these are the key factors driving mostly NRB/Kenya property prices)

I hope the above list will persuade you to adjust your premise :) ...

Diaspora returning home does not have as much impact as the 'West's Financial Crisis',which I think will have a negative effect on remittances to Kenya. I don&rsquo;t think there are that many folks in Diaspora returning ...

What is really pissing Diaspora is that every politician who visit them has been promising 'duel citizenship' without really understanding its deep implications,Diaspora folks are now thinking of helping extract the duel citizen section of the new constitution,and asking a few MPs to see the bill through,secondly,Diaspora has been swindled out of their monies/property and the home judicial system is too slow/cumbersome,setting a special court to expedite Diaspora property cases will help. If these things don&rsquo;t happen,they will put their monies elsewhere ...
Jamani
#50 Posted : Thursday, May 28, 2009 5:03:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
Can someone tell me what effect the return of Kenyans from the diaspora has on our property market.

It depends on alot of things,it could drive the market up if they were sent home with a package,it could increase demand for houses if its a large number returning the will need to stay somewhere and many other things,however as someone said dont expect prices to fall but stagnet maybe for a while in the upper market.

First they influenced the market by pushing up demand. They also dictated the style and taste of the apartments. Now I hear that some need money on their return and this might cause a supply glut.

Our property industry is a small market demand in middle class housing will always outstrip supply,and there are still Kenyans in the diaspora with lots of money and ready to buy houses. it doesnt mean that the Kenyas returning have to sell thier property they can lease or rent it out and not all returning home have property or are broke,i personally doubt that prices will come crushing downwards in Kenya.
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