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Centum pays out KSH 1 billion to employees
Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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MaichBlack wrote:ProverB wrote:dunkang wrote:ProverB wrote:..UAP Holdings has posted a Sh449
million net loss in its 2015 half year results
compared to Sh53.8 million net profit recorded
over the same period in 2014...
The employee at centum who closed the deal that saw OMAM buy the 13% UAP stake held by Centum in effect made centum KES 5.2 billion from that single deal.
How would you reward your analysts if they flipped a loss making investment for 5.2 billion in profit?
If the cadre of analysts you employ can do this for you.. how would you encourage them to do more and better yet remain loyal?
...unlike BRITAM where smart guys felt unappreciated and decided to bounce as a unit of their own?
The bonuses are Ok as a cost of creating shareholder wealth. dividend funds reinvested boost shareholder wealth of entire company.
Centum does what you and I do here. Research and analyse best investment opportunities. but unlike you and I, they have access to billions of capital outlay in form of shareholders' funds. you and I just have our savings...or chama cash to play with.
If you had billions in cash and I helped you make billions more..you would reward me to keep me. way beyond salary. Ask Acorn guys
Thank you for selling.
#HappyInvesting And how about the shareholders? Dunkang... compare share value of Centum now to what it was as ICDC 9 years ago with mworia still an intern and the company issuing profit warnings then. Has shareholders' wealth grown or not? Looking at publicly quoted companies, is Centum the best in terms of growing shareholders wealth?? No. The fellows working at Centum, what is their job definition? Increase shareholders wealth! That is what they are paid to do. 8 to 5! And if they increase it by 25% the have hit the target?? Seriously?? That is very easy to do. Even with eyes closed! Especially when dealing with land. Buy a huge piece of land, put tarmacked roads, drainage, street lighting and other amenities and sell the plots at triple the cost. Heck, put up apartments for sale on part of the land. Or sell the land in phases. Phase I - thrice the cost. After people start building, phase II - Double price of phase I - That is six times the cost!!! @MaichBlack I have previously voiced my reservations about Centum especially when their lofty PowerPoint presentations result in inflated share prices. I am of the opinion that management is using retained cash to undertake very risky investments while downplaying the downside. I almost fell off my chair when i saw a valuation of KShs 147 on mystocks! As for me and my money, i am buyer below NAV and a seller at any price above x1.5 NAV. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/12/2010 Posts: 1,199 Location: Eastlander
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sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:If employees are getting bonuses of KShs 1B, sembuse Directors???? Are they waiting for dividends in 2030 like the rest of the shareholders? My head spins just from thinking of the many ways the DJ and his fellow insider Directors can screw over minority shareholders. The bonuses are not new.. there was outcry in 2012 about it and it was also brought up in the AGM... and suffice it to say..it was answered and okayed by shareholders as part of strategy to motivate those whom are directly responsible for centum's shareholder wealth creation. Please refer to annual reports and see directors' emoluments plus company salary costs and compare to past periods. check growth of overheads against overall growth of business of Centum. If there is disparity of overheads outgrowing business..like with Uchumi, KQ, Mumias, HAFR etc dump the damn thing I am worried about what does not show up in the financials. Refer to CMC offshore accounts, Mumias sugar imports, KQ offshore leases, Meralli deals, Enron SPVs etc Every single company in the RED has at least 3 years of actual indicators in their financial reports that they will be worse off. see Uchumi, see mumias, see KQ...Infact I did the " kenyan Airways...why ignore.." 5 years ago and shit finally came home to roost. you might try hide stuff but gaps will be evident in books. so far all people are going on about is "1 billion in bonuses to employees"... i never thought analysts make decisions based on a journalist's interpretation of facts. Please point out from financials of Centum what is wrong and we can decide from there. @ProverB i don't think we are on the same page here. Let me try to explain it slowly but if I fail to make an impression on you, let each of us carry on in our blissful ignorance. Here goes... The company is theoretically a distinct legal person, separate from the owners. However, since a company is inanimate, it has to act through managers (also called directors) who are the strategic drivers. Directors in turn achieve tactical and operational objectives through employees (also known as staff). It is not uncommon for directors to do business with or on behalf of a company with third parties. To protect other owners (shareholders), the directors are supposed to act in the best interests of the company and disclose all dealings with or on behalf of the company especially if they result in a BENEFIT to the director(s). Naturally directors have more control over the affairs and assets of a company than the staff. It is expected that directors will want to reward themselves more than they do the staff. While staff rewards always show up in the financials (unless in cases of theft/fraud by staff), directors rewards will include undisclosed dealings with the company or FOR the company resulting in benefits to the directors. Now to the point... Are Centum directors happy to pay KShs 1B in bonuses to staff while buying into the growth in NAV narrative or are they secretly doing business with and on behalf of the company and making hard cash while other shareholders await dividends after 15 years? I get you. Anyway... invest only in what you understand. walk away from what you don't. Find a way to grow returns on your investment. If Centum isn't in line with your goals... Ignore it if people want dividends, then advice them to go invest in income stocks for dividends. BAT is nice. #HappyInvesting. ..Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven...Matt5:16
- 1769 Oxford King James Bible 'Authorized Version
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 896
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one secret of getting rich quickly is using other people's money especially if the money is interest and risk free. Some people have just mastered this and are on their way to becoming dollar billionaires. “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/15/2010 Posts: 625
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This is a Centum employees/directors party ... but the shareholders are not invited.
The only sensible thing is to sell off. I'm really concerned about whether there are any truly ethical firms at the NSE.
Centum talks a good game but this scheme is nothing but a fleece off.
In a fair game, if employees are getting a bonus for profits, they should also pay shareholders back for losses.
Otherwise employees have access to the upside while the shareholders are stuck with the downside.
The employees basically now own 20% of the company for free and are getting paid top KES while at it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:If employees are getting bonuses of KShs 1B, sembuse Directors???? Are they waiting for dividends in 2030 like the rest of the shareholders? My head spins just from thinking of the many ways the DJ and his fellow insider Directors can screw over minority shareholders. The bonuses are not new.. there was outcry in 2012 about it and it was also brought up in the AGM... and suffice it to say..it was answered and okayed by shareholders as part of strategy to motivate those whom are directly responsible for centum's shareholder wealth creation. Please refer to annual reports and see directors' emoluments plus company salary costs and compare to past periods. check growth of overheads against overall growth of business of Centum. If there is disparity of overheads outgrowing business..like with Uchumi, KQ, Mumias, HAFR etc dump the damn thing I am worried about what does not show up in the financials. Refer to CMC offshore accounts, Mumias sugar imports, KQ offshore leases, Meralli deals, Enron SPVs etc Every single company in the RED has at least 3 years of actual indicators in their financial reports that they will be worse off. see Uchumi, see mumias, see KQ...Infact I did the " kenyan Airways...why ignore.." 5 years ago and shit finally came home to roost. you might try hide stuff but gaps will be evident in books. so far all people are going on about is "1 billion in bonuses to employees"... i never thought analysts make decisions based on a journalist's interpretation of facts. Please point out from financials of Centum what is wrong and we can decide from there. @ProverB i don't think we are on the same page here. Let me try to explain it slowly but if I fail to make an impression on you, let each of us carry on in our blissful ignorance. Here goes... The company is theoretically a distinct legal person, separate from the owners. However, since a company is inanimate, it has to act through managers (also called directors) who are the strategic drivers. Directors in turn achieve tactical and operational objectives through employees (also known as staff). It is not uncommon for directors to do business with or on behalf of a company with third parties. To protect other owners (shareholders), the directors are supposed to act in the best interests of the company and disclose all dealings with or on behalf of the company especially if they result in a BENEFIT to the director(s). Naturally directors have more control over the affairs and assets of a company than the staff. It is expected that directors will want to reward themselves more than they do the staff. While staff rewards always show up in the financials (unless in cases of theft/fraud by staff), directors rewards will include undisclosed dealings with the company or FOR the company resulting in benefits to the directors. Now to the point... Are Centum directors happy to pay KShs 1B in bonuses to staff while buying into the growth in NAV narrative or are they secretly doing business with and on behalf of the company and making hard cash while other shareholders await dividends after 15 years? I get you. Anyway... invest only in what you understand. walk away from what you don't. Find a way to grow returns on your investment. If Centum isn't in line with your goals... Ignore it if people want dividends, then advice them to go invest in income stocks for dividends. BAT is nice. #HappyInvesting. @ProverB what do you mean? I am on record on Wazua as having invested in Centum from 2011 to last year, liquidating after realizing over 200% capital gains! SeePost#52HereI am just saying there is no obvious moat at current pricing. Your love for this stock is clearly getting in the way of logic. Life is short. Live passionately.
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/15/2015 Posts: 817
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sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:ProverB wrote:sparkly wrote:If employees are getting bonuses of KShs 1B, sembuse Directors???? Are they waiting for dividends in 2030 like the rest of the shareholders? My head spins just from thinking of the many ways the DJ and his fellow insider Directors can screw over minority shareholders. The bonuses are not new.. there was outcry in 2012 about it and it was also brought up in the AGM... and suffice it to say..it was answered and okayed by shareholders as part of strategy to motivate those whom are directly responsible for centum's shareholder wealth creation. Please refer to annual reports and see directors' emoluments plus company salary costs and compare to past periods. check growth of overheads against overall growth of business of Centum. If there is disparity of overheads outgrowing business..like with Uchumi, KQ, Mumias, HAFR etc dump the damn thing I am worried about what does not show up in the financials. Refer to CMC offshore accounts, Mumias sugar imports, KQ offshore leases, Meralli deals, Enron SPVs etc Every single company in the RED has at least 3 years of actual indicators in their financial reports that they will be worse off. see Uchumi, see mumias, see KQ...Infact I did the " kenyan Airways...why ignore.." 5 years ago and shit finally came home to roost. you might try hide stuff but gaps will be evident in books. so far all people are going on about is "1 billion in bonuses to employees"... i never thought analysts make decisions based on a journalist's interpretation of facts. Please point out from financials of Centum what is wrong and we can decide from there. @ProverB i don't think we are on the same page here. Let me try to explain it slowly but if I fail to make an impression on you, let each of us carry on in our blissful ignorance. Here goes... The company is theoretically a distinct legal person, separate from the owners. However, since a company is inanimate, it has to act through managers (also called directors) who are the strategic drivers. Directors in turn achieve tactical and operational objectives through employees (also known as staff). It is not uncommon for directors to do business with or on behalf of a company with third parties. To protect other owners (shareholders), the directors are supposed to act in the best interests of the company and disclose all dealings with or on behalf of the company especially if they result in a BENEFIT to the director(s). Naturally directors have more control over the affairs and assets of a company than the staff. It is expected that directors will want to reward themselves more than they do the staff. While staff rewards always show up in the financials (unless in cases of theft/fraud by staff), directors rewards will include undisclosed dealings with the company or FOR the company resulting in benefits to the directors. Now to the point... Are Centum directors happy to pay KShs 1B in bonuses to staff while buying into the growth in NAV narrative or are they secretly doing business with and on behalf of the company and making hard cash while other shareholders await dividends after 15 years? I get you. Anyway... invest only in what you understand. walk away from what you don't. Find a way to grow returns on your investment. If Centum isn't in line with your goals... Ignore it if people want dividends, then advice them to go invest in income stocks for dividends. BAT is nice. #HappyInvesting. @ProverB what do you mean? I am on record on Wazua as having invested in Centum from 2011 to last year, liquidating after realizing over 200% capital gains! SeePost#52HereI am just saying there is no obvious moat at current pricing. Your love for this stock is clearly getting in the way of logic. si its their time to eat
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/18/2014 Posts: 1,127
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First off, I don't understand why people did not sell this stock during last year's rally. It was grossly overvalued at the price of 84. The nature of the game is to take advantage of Mr. Market's folly that is if he over values any of your stock holdings you sell and vice versa. I held this stock for less than a year and the price more than tripled absent of a drastic upturn in fundamentals. Why would you hold it for longer? No dividend payout could possibly get you that kind of payday. Secondly, the last financial statements were padded by the UAP sell off profits so its going to be an uphill task to even come close to matching that EPS in the near future. It is not every year that you get to dispose any asset at such a humongous profit. What concerns me is why the dj has played a long with this payout script since whatever is to accrue to him as a director is small change compared to what he stands to lose as a shareholder. In other words what's in it for him? So far I think @proverb has come the closest to unraveling that issue. The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/4/2009 Posts: 10,778 Location: NAIROBI
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@lochaz-index Directors are also being rewarded. Kirubi is the defacto CEO;Mworia is just playing to his tunes Wealth is built through a relatively simple equation
Wealth=Income + Investments - Lifestyle
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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MaichBlack wrote:enyands wrote:This is just slap of on the face. Just realised that majority of shareholders aren't them it's us meaning if shafting comes down we really get shafted .over 40% percent . This is another uchumi ,HACO and any other failed business the hands has layeth on.want it to reach 60 and I offload if I'll be lucky . I'd rather do KPLC than this family oriented circus business . YOU DENY 42.16% SHAREHOLDERS BONUSES ONLY TO PLEASE THE NON SHAREHOLDERS WITH 1B .wish they did it secretly .but doing it on front paper ni madharau.hii ni matope men. Even some counties are run better than this bologna. Discuss the common factor in Uchumi, HACO and Centum (20 marks) dj LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/30/2007 Posts: 1,558 Location: Nairobi
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If a significant gain has been received, even berkshire with its Zero div policy, rewards its employees. Case in point, Ajit Jain. However 15% of the gross profit is abit much. From what djck says on twirra, shareholders will get rewarded soon as well. This may be in the form of bonus shares (as a dividend is obviously out of the cards. Despite the fact that i a m not a fan of bonusses as it really makes no difference to company fundamentals, the NSE loves these. I guess we sit and wait for this to pan out.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2011 Posts: 1,740 Location: Nairobi
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And either way Dj gets paid
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,570
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streetwise wrote:And either way Dj gets paid Of the 90 employees, approx. 15 have probably been put there by the Dj. Family, friends etc. Dj and the other fellows probably do business with the Centum probably through an array of companies with confusing ownership - Where company X owns 60% of company Y which owns 85% of company Z whose wholly owned subsidiary bla bla bla. Even if Centum's value goes to zero, Dj will have gotten his money (and yours) out through several other doors and windows. The employees and management can't say anything because they know who butters their bread! Ask @vvs to tell you how his "good friend" Merali does business and why he would never touch any of his companies even with a 50 feet pole!!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,301 Location: kenya
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kenatco, uchumi, haco ,centum.... maybe Heineken 
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 9/18/2014 Posts: 1,127
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Ericsson wrote:@lochaz-index
Directors are also being rewarded.
Kirubi is the defacto CEO;Mworia is just playing to his tunes I understand the hierarchical playbook at centum and also the fact that the directors(the dj included) have their hands in the bonus cookie jar and I alluded to the same in my post. What puzzles me is why the main shareholder in the company is seemingly rummaging for peanuts via a bonus to employees(inclusive of directors) instead of reinvesting the money vis a vis profits plough back to boost the share price where he stands to gain a whole lot more. The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many people as possible.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/25/2014 Posts: 2,301 Location: kenya
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 lochaz-index wrote:Ericsson wrote:@lochaz-index
Directors are also being rewarded.
Kirubi is the defacto CEO;Mworia is just playing to his tunes I understand the hierarchical playbook at centum and also the fact that the directors(the dj included) have their hands in the bonus cookie jar and I alluded to the same in my post. What puzzles me is why the main shareholder in the company is seemingly rummaging for peanuts via a bonus to employees(inclusive of directors) instead of reinvesting the money vis a vis profits plough back to boost the share price where he stands to gain a whole lot more.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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Employees should always be rewarded for doing a good job, that is not in contention. But paying KES1B to 90 employees for a firm that makes less than 4B per year is questionable. Trancentury's stake in Kenya Railways was valued at over KES5 B but when the truth came out, it was valued much less. All those years, directors and management were enjoying bonuses on NAV growth. Tick Tock. Centum Time bomb. Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/15/2013 Posts: 1,977 Location: Here
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dunkang wrote:Employees should always be rewarded for doing a good job, that is not in contention. But paying KES1B to 90 employees for a firm that makes less than 4B per year is questionable.
Trancentury's stake in Kenya Railways was valued at over KES5 B but when the truth came out, it was valued much less. All those years, directors and management were enjoying bonuses on NAV growth.
Tick Tock. Centum Time bomb. That is the point. a) If 90 employees make less than 4B and get Bonus of 1B , What will 150 employees who make 6B get in bonuses. b). Banks with thousands of employees make Billions but i doubt they get such a % in bonus. Everybody STEALS, a THIEF is one who's CAUGHT stealing something of LITTLE VALUE. !!!
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/11/2006 Posts: 896
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Bonuses should be narrowed to each employee's performance. You will be surprised that a company may grow its profits significantly even when some members of staff under performed. We are given bonuses where i work and it depends on your individual performance as per the performance targets we are given yearly. The targets are then raised in each subsequent year. The bonuses we get are usually a percentage of our salaries or multiples of it should one exceed targets which are usually not that low. Bonuses should not be a percentage of profits or NAV growth. That is fleecing share holders and will be prone to manipulations by employees to maximize them “Invest in yourself. Your career is the engine of your wealth.”
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,570
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Exactly @ngapat - Targets should be the level of performance you would expect from an extremely serious employee. That becomes the benchmark. Anyone who performs better than that has definitely gone an extra mile and there would be no argument if he were to be awarded a bonus. Sio mambo ya kuwekea watu targets they can achieve while sleeping and term everything above that bonus material! Hiyo ni wizi!!! Would these fellows do the same at their own private businesses? Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 6/23/2011 Posts: 1,740 Location: Nairobi
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Two things.
1. The person setting the target should not be a beneficially of the same.
2. Not meeting target leads to one getting fired.
3. The highest you should get to would be double the target bonus.
4. The money needs to be paid from outright free cash flow.
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