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mungiki- how many must die
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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And just to clarify myself further @Mainat,I like the way you think and concurr,yes lets break up the problems into manageble chunks and deal with them separately. @Simonkabz,I am also shocked to find myself partly agreeing with you,as individual kenyans the way to go is to deal with the Mungiki menace just the way the kirinyaga vigilantes did. But long term solution from the gava is to strip off the big thugs their 100,000 acre farms I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/20/2008 Posts: 367
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The powers that be do not give two s$%^ about poor people. When the Mungiki scythe is upon the middle calss and upper class,that is when the government will act.
It is sad but that is the truth.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/10/2008 Posts: 68
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@ mainaT
The worst thing about many issues in Kenya is we refuse to deal with the issues one by one and directly but instead look to bring in other issus and deal with them collectively. THESE PROBLEMS ARE INTERTWINED
There is a squatter problem in Central-specifically some pockets of Nyeri (but even larger Pwani),RV. Deal with that. HERE THE ISSUE OF GRABBED LAND BEING GIVEN BACK COMES IN
There is a Mungiki problem. Crime & extortion. Deal with that. HERE THE ISSUE OF HOW TO DEAL WITH IT BRINGS IN ALL OTHER POINTS!!
There is an unemployment problem among the youth-Kenyawide. AS SOMEONE HAS POINTED OUT,AGRIC IS THE BIGGEST EMPLOYER AND IT REQUIRES LAND,RIGHT?
There is land corruptly acquired-again Kenyawide. Deal with that. YES,MAYBE THE ROOT OF ALL OTHER PROBLEMS
The other worst thing is Kenyans don't listen to each other or learn becuase they read Nation etc. HERE I DONT FOLLOW SO NO COMMENT.
AE Mathenge and myslef come Karatina/Kirinyaga areas. We've told what the issue relating to those killings. YEA,YOU HAVE TOLD US THE PROBLEM,THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NOW TELL US THE SOLUTION!
Yet blah blah...YEA BLA,BLA,BLA...DOMO!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/31/2008 Posts: 1,076
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@ Kanobi, At the risk of hijacking this thread; Breaking the issues, Start with land. If the govt were to delve into this,they would start by recognising private ownership of property. With that in mind they might want to put forth a policy - to impose tax on idle land to encourage/compel those who have more than they can gainfully utilise,to sell it off. Small holdings vs huge scale utilization of land,which is beneficial to the larger society. Subsistence farming; That is the situation Kenyans find themselves in today. Is it the wisest thing for govt to encourage Kenyans to continue doing in this day and age. I guess someone needs to tell Kenyans to get out of ' I am a victim of land grabbing sydrome' and learn to fit themselves in to the larger capitalist world. Coveting other peoples land/property will take them nowhere at all. The surest way to waste one's time on earth,is to blissfully continue playing victim and awaiting govt to take from 'the rich' and share the wealth. B.timer Dunia ni msongamano..
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/21/2006 Posts: 1,590
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Kanda-there is a reason for what i said. In the early 90s,New York was known as the murder and crime city of the world. Like with Mungiki,nobody thought is solveable because it was felt that young blacker men that you and me had been disenfranchised by a discrimanatory unequal society leading to them going into crime. Infact,slave trade had condemed them to a life of crime. Along came som mayor who said 'hang on,just because you are poor live in a racist society et al,doesn't mean that you should commit crime'. He introduced zero-tolerance and cleared up the streets within a few yrs thus reducing crime and murder. Today,inequality is still strong,young blackmen are still unemployed. But crime and murder is down... www.mjengakenya.blogspot.comSehemu ndio nyumba
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/23/2008 Posts: 3,017
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@B-Timer Me and you only disagree on the 'who owns the land' Kenyatta or Moi excising 50,000 acres of ADC land and calling it their own does not make the land theirs. repossessing it is an act of justice. kenyans demanding the land back is a call for justice,not coveting other peoples property. Secondly,maybe the children from age 1-15 can be successfully steered away from subsistence farming,but for the rest of kenyans above this age who have no other economic abilities,this is the only and cheapest option apart from being manual labourers. I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone. "The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/25/2007 Posts: 149
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Mungiki has nothing to do with land... This is a bunch of violent thugs robbing,stealing,from regular people.
Acts like Karatina cannot occur without excessive drug use,Terrible and evil deeds as though these people are possesed.
It kills my heart to see such foolishness and beast like instincts in young people.
The government Must do whatever they must...
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2007 Posts: 8,776 Location: Cameroon
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Then u get guys all over against EJ killings. How do u deal with such men in mathira? Unleash the kwekwe,it worked n it will still do. As for innocent deaths,well,even in war there's collateral. We will deal with that when we get there. Just kill them! Kill kill kill! Truest proverb: Mwenda pole hajikwai TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 41
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Massive Injustices will not be forgotten tomorrow,10,30,50 years from now. Stories are passesd from generation to generation. the sooner a nation deals conclusively with them the better.
those advocating for national forgetfulness of national injustices will surely get dissapointed. and particularly such a physical injustice as grabbed land. infact the best kenyattas,etc could have done was to subdivide that land and sell it. that way there is no physical scar- cant understand why wealthy pple have to insist on owning masiive tracts of land when you can easily spread your wealth on diversified areas of wealth holding and across nations and continents.
On Mungiki,it is simply socio-political. It is only currently more apparent in central because the place has its own socio-cultural historical dynamics which is a bit different from other areas. but other areas will sooner or later catch the cold if a comprehensive national policy and action to address employment for all is not addresed urgently plus corruption.
But along that,the criminal manifestation of mungiki action must be dealt with as such by law enforcement and more important the society where they are part and parcel of and yet bears grim consequenses of their perceived grievance.
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/18/2008 Posts: 27
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People,wake up and smell the coffee - if it is not Mungiki,it is a stolen election,or a slum with 1.5million people; or parents stealing scripts for their children; or MP's fighting for the spoils; or incompetent judges wanting more feed; or Kenyans executed in broad daylight; or Kenyans breeding like mice; or land grabbing; or land subdivision to oblivion; or unemployed masses; or tribalism and job allocations on no merit; or............ the list is endless. Mungiki is part of the Kenyan societal breakdown; all values are out of the window and these are the consequences. For the believers of any religion,the blood of 1,300 people killed as recent as 2007/2008 is in the hands of all Kenyans.
We must approach all these issues objectively. Our government at independence failed. Subsequent governments failed. The Kenyan people have also failed as we have engaged in meaningless thoughts and actions and continue to do so each and every day. These are the consequences. First,we must ask the spirits (whomever they are,the christian God,Muslim Allah or the traditional Ngai) for forgiveness for the blood of our brothers that we shed. Second,we educated elites such as the SKerians must begin thinking Nationally and not parochially. A Kenyan movement for Kenyans - our thought paradigms must change if Kenya is to reverse its death throes. This may then allow us to think objectively; to call a spade a spade. For instance,if KIbaki comes out and appoints political appointees without Raila we say no why? Because this is a coalition government period (objective thinking)! But the meaningless Kenyan scenario unfold thus - PNU (read some kikuyus) say he can because he is President ! ODM operatives (read some Luos say) say stupid Kyuks,they think Kenya is theirs! Heck Kenyans,can't we think straight!? were we cursed (Ham's descendants?) or is our IQ just low (as I read in some evolutionary quantitative genetics papers)?
Can we not see we need to do that which is good for the Nation? And not that which is immediately good for the self? And that in the end what is good for the Nation will ultimately be good for us and our children? Jamani Mungu,tulikosea wapi sisi waafrikaaaaaa?????????????
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