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Form One Selection 2015
Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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MaichBlack wrote:nakujua wrote:mwenza wrote:nakujua wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:mwenza wrote:This so called affirmative action is sometimes a fallacy. Most parents do not take their children to overcrowded public schools by choice. The reasons are mainly financial. There are quite a number of good private primary schools which charge circa 20k fees per term.
Now tell me if a parent can not afford to take their kid to a private school charging between 15-20k per term, how would such a parent manage to educate their kid in a school like say Alliance High where total cost last year was 147K ( including cost of text books since they don't provide any) per year for form one students. Remind me again why people are falling over one another trying to get their kids to Alliance? From your description, it doesn't seem like a good school at all - "they don't even provide text books! huyu mwenza ako zake, kuna bursaries for poor kids, and private schools can discriminate on the kids they select for admission - thus the reason for the affirmative/quota system in place. if you stop limiting yourself to nairobi and other urban areas then you will see the bigger picture when it comes to the affirmative action. @nakujua.... Trust me, am talking from point of knowledge. then sielewi that point - remember in the public vs private school scenario, the latter can only admit those who can afford while the former accounts for both and the reason some balancing act is put in place. National Schools almost always have better facilities compared to other public school. The fact that the schools that were upgrade to National schools were give a couple of millions each to upgrade their facilities attests to this. Secondly, due to expectations, teachers in traditionally high performing schools are pressured to keep standards up. A good number of teachers would never want to teach in National Schools because of the pressure. A relative was telling me you can get 100 As in Maths and you are called to the office to explain the unacceptable failure given the previous year there were 160 straight As. In other schools, half the students getting Es is an achievement because they are used to 75% Es. Most teachers prefer the later because mshahara ni ule ule (Apart from "Motivation allowance"). If your kid is in the former, he will benefit from the fact that the teacher is under pressure to ensure he and the classmates outperform the previous class. my comments were on public vs private primary schools - either way we have been 'zombified' into books as the measure of success especially for kids. but you honestly can't compare national schools with the others, the national schools get the best performing students coupled with great resources - hata with danda, lazy teachers most of those kids can hit straight A's with ease. I am sure if we were to switch and take the worst performers in kcpe to the well resourced national schools and take the top students to the village day schools at the end of 4 years the academically gifted kids would still come tops, doesn't matter the pressure put on the kids who are not academically gifted. for the teachers remember kuna kitu huitwa promotion, and that is pegged to some extent on performance. lakini everyone is gifted differently, its all about helping kids discover what they are good at , our success in life is based on maximizing ones strengths.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Just been informed that my niece who was in Moi edu center has been called to some sch in Mandera, how is that fair? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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murchr wrote:Just been informed that my niece who was in Moi edu center has been called to some sch in Mandera, how is that fair? Not fair but if you can afford some facilitation allowance (50K) she will get her dream school in Nairobi. Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:Just been informed that my niece who was in Moi edu center has been called to some sch in Mandera, how is that fair? What were her choices and what did she score?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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chiaroscuro wrote:murchr wrote:Just been informed that my niece who was in Moi edu center has been called to some sch in Mandera, how is that fair? What were her choices and what did she score? I know two, Kenya High, Moi Nairobi gals, 385 marks sasa hio si ni matharau? "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/4/2008 Posts: 2,849 Location: Rupi
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Othelo wrote:Euge wrote:nakujua wrote:Swenani wrote:Torio wrote:This selection stinks. And it is not just private school kids. My friend's daughter - who was in a rural public school in Central - scored 400 and was selected to join Loreto Kiambu (not Limuru), which is just so-so. A girl who scored 378, and who was from the same school will be going to Precious Blood Riruta. My friend's girl had Riruta as her 1st choice. It does not make any sense.
If, as Kaimenyi says, “The government's intention is to make all secondary schools operate at the same level so that we end this belief that there are inferior and superior schools,” then what is the point of doing a national exam? Why not go majimbo all the way then, American style?
I'll give them one thing, there will be bribery left, right ... You are new to wazua right?  , pole kwake - but I thought both schools are extra county schools so at the same level. My friends daughter scored 342 and has been called to Kenya High. #team Affirmative action lot  @ Othelo not for a minute. The system is grossly unfair!!! Its annoying! That a kid with 427 from a private school cannot be selected to Kenya High and 342 gets straight admission. Aaaiiiii!!! Lord, thank you!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,460
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murchr wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:murchr wrote:Just been informed that my niece who was in Moi edu center has been called to some sch in Mandera, how is that fair? What were her choices and what did she score? I know two, Kenya High, Moi Nairobi gals, 385 marks sasa hio si ni matharau? In other news a daughter to @Euge's friend has been admitted to Kenya High with 342 marks. As far as MoE is concerned, you can go jump off a bridge for all they care!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MaichBlack wrote:murchr wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:murchr wrote:Just been informed that my niece who was in Moi edu center has been called to some sch in Mandera, how is that fair? What were her choices and what did she score? I know two, Kenya High, Moi Nairobi gals, 385 marks sasa hio si ni matharau? In other news a daughter to @Euge's friend has been admitted to Kenya High with 342 marks. As far as MoE is concerned, you can go jump off a bridge for all they care!!! In simple tones, what is the Govt telling people, that those who can pay for proper education can as well survive in Mandera where the teachers dont want to go teach? Upus! "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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It is time to eat ! Watch out for principals upgrading their vehicles and building more rentals in February! Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,460
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murchr wrote:MaichBlack wrote:murchr wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:murchr wrote:Just been informed that my niece who was in Moi edu center has been called to some sch in Mandera, how is that fair? What were her choices and what did she score? I know two, Kenya High, Moi Nairobi gals, 385 marks sasa hio si ni matharau? In other news a daughter to @Euge's friend has been admitted to Kenya High with 342 marks. As far as MoE is concerned, you can go jump off a bridge for all they care!!! In simple tones, what is the Govt telling people, that those who can pay for proper education can as well survive in Mandera where the teachers dont want to go teach? Upus! The positions for kids with 385, 427 etc. are 'safe' at Kenya High etc. It's only that at the moment they have conveniently been given to kids from Mandera who will not even afford the fare to the school let alone the school fees. The positions will become available after the Mandera kids don't report. But the parents will have to part with 50k facilitation fees. And for a school that picks around 300 students you can bet there will be around 80 such vacancies. That's a cool 4 million which is normally shared by 4 or less people - The headmaster and two or three others who are powerful enough to spoil the party. Teachers get nothing!!! But the headmaster will always make sure that all parents part with between 2 and 3k as motivation fees for the teachers every semester. Every teacher gets around 80k per term as motivation allowance and everyone is happy. And the scam continues. ile mzazi amebakisha anapelekea Kyuna juu mtoto 'alipata' shule!!! Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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MaichBlack wrote:murchr wrote:MaichBlack wrote:murchr wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:murchr wrote:Just been informed that my niece who was in Moi edu center has been called to some sch in Mandera, how is that fair? What were her choices and what did she score? I know two, Kenya High, Moi Nairobi gals, 385 marks sasa hio si ni matharau? In other news a daughter to @Euge's friend has been admitted to Kenya High with 342 marks. As far as MoE is concerned, you can go jump off a bridge for all they care!!! In simple tones, what is the Govt telling people, that those who can pay for proper education can as well survive in Mandera where the teachers dont want to go teach? Upus! The positions for kids with 385, 427 etc. are 'safe' at Kenya High etc. It's only that at the moment they have conveniently been given to kids from Mandera kids who will not even afford the fare to the school let alone the school fees. The positions will become available after the Mandera kids don't report. But the parents will have to part with 50k facilitation fees. And for a school that picks around 300 students you can bet there will be around 80 such vacancies. That's a cool 4 million which is normally shared by 4 or less people - The headmaster and two or three others who are powerful enough to spoil the party. Teachers get nothing!!! But the headmaster will always make sure that all parents part with between 2 and 3k as motivation fees for the teachers every semester. Every teacher gets around 80k per term as motivation allowance and everyone is happy. And the scam continues. ile mzazi amebakisha anapelekea Kyuna juu mtoto 'alipata' shule!!! Kweli! waah! "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: User Joined: 9/6/2013 Posts: 1,446 Location: In a house
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chiaroscuro wrote:nakujua wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:nakujua wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:MaichBlack wrote:chiaroscuro wrote:Looking at the sampled children in today's newspaper, I think the problem is that candidates and their guardians are not properly advised on how to make effective choices. How does one choose Alliance, Maranda, Lenana and Maseno? All these are highly competitive schools.
If you miss Alliance with your 407marks, you will find that by the time they try to place you in Maranda, it is already filled by those who chose it as first choice. Same for Lenana, Maseno and ALL other national schools and competitive county ones.
So, you'll be left out! The only thing the ministry can do is place you anywhere else there is a space.
People must learn that CHOICES HAVE CONSEQUENCES!
This a very stone age approach. If I chose a school as my second or third choice and I scored more marks than you, I should get a higher priority than you even if you chose it as your first choice if I miss my first choice. It's doable only the people involved are lazy, corrupt and clueless!!! If you chose a school as your first choice and I chose it as my third and one of us is supposed to be admitted there and I scored higher marks than you, it is common sense that I should get the slot before you, other things (affirmative action bla bla bla) being constant). The only difference should be that there are other two schools I'd rather have gone to but didn't meet the criteria. Common sense is surely not common - as far as this so called selection process is concerned. You do have a point and I hope MoE is scanning Wazua to get some ideas.... The net effect of your proposal is that all the choices are given equal priority and then placement is based on popularity of a school. That is, suppose Adam has 410 marks and Bob 400 Adam chooses Alliance as second choice while Bob chooses it as first choice. algorithim What you are saying is that we ignore the fact that Bob had a greater desire to go to Alliance that Adam and only look at their marks. So we give the slot to Adam even though he didn't want to go to Alliance as much as Bob. My opinion is that this is not fair to Bob. And secondly, we are giving too much focus on marks and ignoring the rest of the human being - his likes and dislikes etc! you have put it very well, the parameters that go into the algorithm are limiting the places, to have the scenario that @MaichBlack is advocating for, then we would need to change the parameters, but as you put it the current ranking of the choices is a parameter that has to be considered when doing the placement otherwise it would be a case of defining a variable and then not using it. The kids selection lists as used currently has led to the current scenario where some think that its unfair, but if we were to start guessing where a kid might prefer to go outside their selection then the algorithm becomes very complex especially given the current input. Instead of guessing, we could increase the number of choices... perhaps up to 7! of course, with a bigger filter the chances of a placement increase, but cases of kids who qualify for national school and still miss might still occur since the loophole still exists. the only way out would be to work out the cut off mark factoring in affirmative action and basically randomly allocate kids to national schools - do away with the selection. But better still would be to do away with national schools, get rid of boarding government secondary schools and let it be the parents responsibility to get a school for their kid. It has never been proven that boarding schools offer better education than day-schools. I went to a day school that was right inside a town - Chania.We did quite well for ourselves - a good chunk of my classmates are highly respected professionals today, including yours truly....but, do I say? However doing away with boarding school is not as easy as Kibaki's 2003 declaration that "watoto waende shule jumatatu na wasilipishe karo!" GoK has failed miserably in the provision of secondary level education....and education generally. It has laid too much focus in the provision of running expense through programs like TSC, FPE and FDSE. School Development funding is almost non-existent. The spunky new structures you see in the schools are built through parent contribution. Truth is that GoK is one of the few in the world that spend largest share of budget on education, but we have to increase the money..... How about issuing an educational development bond similar to the infrastructure bond of a few years ago? Just a thought.... I happen to have done a small study. My school was boys school, mixed day and boarding, Therefore all the kids were subjected to the same environment except for the boarding facilities. I was a day scholar. Later on in my life after learning about design of experiments and statistics, I picked my high school results, we used to be given all the grades for each subject for everyone in the schools. I did a retrospective case-control study. Boarders as cases. Results!! Day scholars out-performed borders for the seven years of results I had with me. Since then I have always advocated for day schools. Hata huko @kiash day schooling is the norm, of course there are exceptions but they go home over the weekend, St. Andrews Turi style.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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the disdain towards some kids is unwaranted, just coz a section of the population is not as moneyed as some does not mean they should not get chances.
we voted in a constitution that dictates national balance and when it hits home hatutaki.
Bursaries exists, well wishers exists - let the kids get a chance at bettering maisha Yao.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/3/2008 Posts: 4,057 Location: Gwitu
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nakujua wrote:the disdain towards some kids is unwaranted, just coz a section of the population is not as moneyed as some does not mean they should not get chances.
we voted in a constitution that dictates national balance and when it hits home hatutaki.
Bursaries exists, well wishers exists - let the kids get a chance at bettering maisha Yao. Bursaries are funded by taxes and Public schools too. Therefore, when the son of a rich tax payer gets 415 marks he is entitled for a place in the National school. Equity is not about denying others opportunities. Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,460
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kaka2za wrote:nakujua wrote:the disdain towards some kids is unwaranted, just coz a section of the population is not as moneyed as some does not mean they should not get chances.
we voted in a constitution that dictates national balance and when it hits home hatutaki.
Bursaries exists, well wishers exists - let the kids get a chance at bettering maisha Yao. Bursaries are funded by taxes and Public schools too. Therefore, when the son of a rich tax payer gets 415 marks he is entitled for a place in the National school. Equity is not about denying others opportunities. I have said this once and I will repeat it again for the ignorant to hear. You work extremely hard and the government takes some of your money in form of taxes. Some of your money is used to pay school fees for kids in Primary school. For whatever reason you decide to use some of your remaining money to take your kid to a private school even though you have already paid for the running if primary schools. In doing so, you have extended an additional favour to the government and society at large because your kids place in public school can now be taken by someone else. After your kid does his KCPE and passes, we tell you "Guess what! We don't care how well your kid performed. The kid who's fee you were paying through taxes gets priority. And it does not matter what he got. We will come up with a formula that ensures the other kid gets priority! You can go jump off a bridge for all we care. But before you do, have you paid this month's taxes? CGT? Okay, go to hell!" Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/22/2009 Posts: 7,460
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And one more thing oh ye ignorant Kenyans, people don't take kids to private schools because they are rich. Some actually struggle and sacrifice to pay the fees. Why not simply take their kids to public schools? For one, where are the schools - in Nairobi for example? How many schools has the City Council and now City county built since the 90s??? Of the old ones, how many new classes has the council/county built. In new estates, how many public schools have been built. Some Nairobi estates have between zero and one public school. How do you squeeze in all the kids there? What if there is no public school? You take them to the neighbouring estate?? Reasonable affirmative action is okay. Kids in marginalized areas need a helping hand. But what is happening currently is too much. If you are my neighbour, you still expect your kid to join a National school with 345 while mine can't join the same school with 420 marks just because you took your kid to a public school? Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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kaka2za wrote:nakujua wrote:the disdain towards some kids is unwaranted, just coz a section of the population is not as moneyed as some does not mean they should not get chances.
we voted in a constitution that dictates national balance and when it hits home hatutaki.
Bursaries exists, well wishers exists - let the kids get a chance at bettering maisha Yao. Bursaries are funded by taxes and Public schools too. Therefore, when the son of a rich tax payer gets 415 marks he is entitled for a place in the National school. Equity is not about denying others opportunities. In ensuring a balanced society, and ensuring the country in general shares out it resources in an equitable manner, some will have to miss out on opportunities. It's there in your constitution as pertaining national resources.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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MaichBlack wrote:kaka2za wrote:nakujua wrote:the disdain towards some kids is unwaranted, just coz a section of the population is not as moneyed as some does not mean they should not get chances.
we voted in a constitution that dictates national balance and when it hits home hatutaki.
Bursaries exists, well wishers exists - let the kids get a chance at bettering maisha Yao. Bursaries are funded by taxes and Public schools too. Therefore, when the son of a rich tax payer gets 415 marks he is entitled for a place in the National school. Equity is not about denying others opportunities. I have said this once and I will repeat it again for the ignorant to hear. You work extremely hard and the government takes some of your money in form of taxes. Some of your money is used to pay school fees for kids in Primary school. For whatever reason you decide to use some of your remaining money to take your kid to a private school even though you have already paid for the running if primary schools. In doing so, you have extended an additional favour to the government and society at large because your kids place in public school can now be taken by someone else. After your kid does his KCPE and passes, we tell you "Guess what! We don't care how well your kid performed. The kid who's fee you were paying through taxes gets priority. And it does not matter what he got. We will come up with a formula that ensures the other kid gets priority! You can go jump off a bridge for all we care. But before you do, have you paid this month's taxes? CGT? Okay, go to hell!" Please forgive my ignorance, but you do no one a favor by taking your kid to a private school, if all private schools were closed the government would still be mandated to provide education, and yes you pay towards education hata ka you have no kids. affirmative action exists for a reason, and that is to ensure even the kids from difficult backgrounds, and those whose parents can not afford certain resources also get a chance to enjoy the national resources. as for your kid, that's your responsibility to explain to them that life has it's ups and downs.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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nakujua wrote:kaka2za wrote:nakujua wrote:the disdain towards some kids is unwaranted, just coz a section of the population is not as moneyed as some does not mean they should not get chances.
we voted in a constitution that dictates national balance and when it hits home hatutaki.
Bursaries exists, well wishers exists - let the kids get a chance at bettering maisha Yao. Bursaries are funded by taxes and Public schools too. Therefore, when the son of a rich tax payer gets 415 marks he is entitled for a place in the National school. Equity is not about denying others opportunities. In ensuring a balanced society, and ensuring the country in general shares out it resources in an equitable manner, some will have to miss out on opportunities. It's there in your constitution as pertaining national resources. There's nothing like a balanced society, poverty to a large extend is a state of mind that even education cannot change. Purnishing a tax payer because he was able to squeeze that extra coin is an injustice. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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MaichBlack wrote:And one more thing oh ye ignorant Kenyans, people don't take kids to private schools because they are rich. Some actually struggle and sacrifice to pay the fees. Why not simply take their kids to public schools? For one, where are the schools - in Nairobi for example? How many schools has the City Council and now City county built since the 90s??? Of the old ones, how many new classes has the council/county built. In new estates, how many public schools have been built. Some Nairobi estates have between zero and one public school. How do you squeeze in all the kids there? What if there is no public school? You take them to the neighbouring estate??
Reasonable affirmative action is okay. Kids in marginalized areas need a helping hand. But what is happening currently is too much. If you are my neighbour, you still expect your kid to join a National school with 345 while mine can't join the same school with 420 marks just because you took your kid to a public school? And yet you claim there are inadequate public schools and then your neighbor takes their kid to a public school. that aside, it's not as if private school kids do not get access to the national school - the selection results have been posted and the private school have been given their share.
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