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PCUSA (elder brother to PCEA) To Allow Gay Marriages
AlphDoti
#41 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2014 10:37:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
@lonest! we can talk about misconceptions you have.

First, you are trying to change the topic, about the members of church who introduce things which are not part of the scripture revealed by God. And I said we've seen this habit has been going on since time immemorial.

Secondly, I never pick a story from the cutter-press and say this is in the Bible. I never, accuse anyone of things written by enemies. I always try to cahllenge you as Christian based on what is in the Bible. Don't I? So why pick garbage and come claim to be Islamic?

Anyway, let me respond to your allegations
This story you have narrated, you get this from history books, which have been written. The book lied that, one time the Prophet was visiting the house of Zaid, who was his adopted son, who was a slave and had been liberated. The book says when he visited his house, and Zainab was changing her clothes, and prophet felt for her. And the story says when Zaid heard that prophet had visited his house, so he wanted to divorce his wife. This incident is recorded like that.

@lonest! this incident is against the Quran
Not only is it against the Quran, but the book itself which carries this story has been written by a person who has been regarded as a absolute lier.

The writer has not been regarded as trustworthy at all. Therefore, this story can never be accepted at all.

That person has been called a lier
He had no basis and not trustworthy.

I hope you can be satisfied with my answer, because your story is not in authentic source of Islam. It is not in Quran, and it is not in authentic Hadith. So where you get it, it is not from Islam.
Lolest!
#42 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2014 10:41:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
This is what the quran says in sura 3:3

Quote:
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.


Qur'an actually says the Gospel and Torah are from God!

Then the followers poke holes in the torah and the gospels meaning they doubt God
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#43 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2014 10:47:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
AlphDoti wrote:


First, you are trying to change the topic, about the members of church who introduce things which are not part of the scripture revealed by God. And I said we've seen this habit has been going on since time immemorial.


who is changing the topic? You should have let it be how it was before you brought your diversions!

Then you start crying we are attacking your religion and claiming that you never attack the Christian faith without provocation
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#44 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2014 11:35:30 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
al-Tabari must be one of the haters of Islam!

Quote:
The Messenger of God came to the house of Zayd b. Harithah. (Zayd was always called Zayd b. Muhammad.) Perhaps the Messenger of God missed him at that moment, so as to ask, "Where is Zayd?" He came to his residence to look for him but did not find him. Zaynab bt. Jash, Zayd’s wife, rose to meet him. Because she was dressed only in a shift, the Messenger of God turned away from her. She said: "He is not here, Messenger of God. Come in, you who are as dear to me as my father and mother!" The Messenger of God refused to enter. Zaynab had dressed in haste when she was told "the Messenger of God is at the door." She jumped up in haste and excited the admiration of the Messenger of God, so that he turned away murmuring something that could scarcely be understood. However, he did say overtly: "Glory be to God the Almighty! Glory be to God, who causes the hearts to turn!"

Quote:
While the Messenger of God was talking with 'A'isha, a fainting overcame him. When he was released from it, he smiled and saidsmile , "Who will go to Zaynab to tell her the good news, saying that God has married her to me?"

Quote:
The Prophet having witnessed this, took Zayd out to the Hijr and said, "O all those who are present, witness that Zayd [hereby] becomes my [adopted] son, with mutual rights of inheritance." When Zayd's father and paternal uncle saw this, they were satisfied and went away.

[Zayd b. Harithah] was thus called Zayd b. Muhammad until God revealed Islam. I was told all this by al-Harith [b. Muhammad] - Ibn Sa'd - Hisham b. Muhammad [al-Kalbi] - his father [Muhammad al-Kalbi], Jamil b. Marthad al-Ta'i, and others.


Sasa tutaambiwa the hadith si sahih!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#45 Posted : Monday, June 23, 2014 11:55:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
AlphDoti wrote:

@lonest! this incident is against the Quran

How is it against the qur'an?
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#46 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2014 12:44:17 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
Sheikh Hammudah Abdallati must be a hater too!
Quote:
Some of the Prophet's marriages were for legislative reasons and to abolish certain corrupt traditions. Such was his marriage to Zaynab, divorcee of the freed slave Zayd. Before Islam, the Arabs did not allow divorcees to remarry. Zayd was adopted by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and called his son as was the custom among the Arabs before Islam. But Islam abrogated this custom and disapproved of its practice
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
AlphDoti
#47 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2014 1:49:36 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:


First, you are trying to change the topic, about the members of church who introduce things which are not part of the scripture revealed by God. And I said we've seen this habit has been going on since time immemorial.

who is changing the topic? You should have let it be how it was before you brought your diversions!

Then you start crying we are attacking your religion and claiming that you never attack the Christian faith without provocation

First, I said what this church PCEA/PCUSA is doing is terrible, they are actually trying to do what the early scholars did, they have been changing the Bible as they willed.

Then, you came fighting and said it's interpretation. I asked you to tell me what interpretation. You did not explain the interpretation issue, but you did about turn and ask to be shown which verses in particular have been expunged from these versions?

I gave you the verses. What did you do? You didn't see the verses, infact, you did another 360 and went to consult your friends, the liars to find dirt and lies about Islam.

You didn't focus on the debate about the different Bible versions. The current Bible in your hands is totally different from the "ancient manuscripts".

Even your fellow Christian @muriel has told you this in his post #31

I always remain focused on the debate. I use facts. I use the Bible. I use your scholars of the church. I don't go bringing Mr. Rushdi stuff and say this is your church. I use real church like PCEA and so called PCUSA.

So even you, if you want to debate, quote Islam, quote the Quran, quote the authentic hadith. Don't go dig stuff done by your church to malign Islam and say this is Islam.

Sawa?
AlphDoti
#48 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2014 1:59:44 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
This is what the quran says in sura 3:3

Quote:
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

Qur'an actually says the Gospel and Torah are from God!

Then the followers poke holes in the torah and the gospels meaning they doubt God

@lonest! yes the Quran mentions Torah and Gospel as earlier scriptures revealed by God. I already told you in my post #36. I guess you didn't read it, eh!

Yes, Muslims we believe in all Divine Scriptures, but in their original form.

God sent to each nation a Prophet as a warner, and some of them with a Scripture as a guidance for that particular nation. The Suhuf to Abraham, the Torah (part of the Old Testament) to Moses, the Zabur (Psalms) to David, and the Injeel (New Testament) to Jesus.

None of these Scriptures remain in their original form now!

Now, as part of Allah's (Almighty God) original (ask me what do you mean original) plan, He finally sent Muhammad (pbuh) as the seal of all Prophets with the Qur'an as a guidance to all mankind, anywhere, anytime.
AlphDoti
#49 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2014 2:26:21 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Lolest! wrote:
al-Tabari must be one of the haters of Islam!

Quote:
The Messenger of God came to the house of Zayd b. Harithah. (Zayd was always called Zayd b. Muhammad.) Perhaps the Messenger of God missed him at that moment, so as to ask, "Where is Zayd?" He came to his residence to look for him but did not find him. Zaynab bt. Jash, Zayd’s wife, rose to meet him. Because she was dressed only in a shift, the Messenger of God turned away from her. She said: "He is not here, Messenger of God. Come in, you who are as dear to me as my father and mother!" The Messenger of God refused to enter. Zaynab had dressed in haste when she was told "the Messenger of God is at the door." She jumped up in haste and excited the admiration of the Messenger of God, so that he turned away murmuring something that could scarcely be understood. However, he did say overtly: "Glory be to God the Almighty! Glory be to God, who causes the hearts to turn!"

Quote:
While the Messenger of God was talking with 'A'isha, a fainting overcame him. When he was released from it, he smiled and saidsmile , "Who will go to Zaynab to tell her the good news, saying that God has married her to me?"

Quote:
The Prophet having witnessed this, took Zayd out to the Hijr and said, "O all those who are present, witness that Zayd [hereby] becomes my [adopted] son, with mutual rights of inheritance." When Zayd's father and paternal uncle saw this, they were satisfied and went away.

[Zayd b. Harithah] was thus called Zayd b. Muhammad until God revealed Islam. I was told all this by al-Harith [b. Muhammad] - Ibn Sa'd - Hisham b. Muhammad [al-Kalbi] - his father [Muhammad al-Kalbi], Jamil b. Marthad al-Ta'i, and others.

Sasa tutaambiwa the hadith si sahih!

@Lonest! Al-Tabari is not a reliable source of information to learn about the Prophet, or Islam for that matter.

If you want to learn about or critic Islam, refer at authentic source of Islam, the Quran and Hadith. If you find anything wrong there, then let me know.

But, you find that all the critics of Islam, the Christian missionaries who attack Islam always quote from Al-Tabari. They quote his writings about Islam and about prophet Muhammad (pbuh), about the companions, about pre-Islamic Arabia.

He actually wrote entire volume, a book about history; both Islamic and Biblical histories.

The problem with Al-Tabari history is that it is not reliable. In fact Al_Tabari warned people at the beginning of his book that his book is filled with weak, un-authentic narrations.

And this is the problem with critics of Islam.
They have not really studied Islam. They think they have, but in reality they have not.

Muslims are aware about this, and they warn other Muslims not to be impressed by the writings of Al-Tabari. Muslims also know that they should not take critics of Islam seriously who use Al-Tabari as their reference.
symbols
#50 Posted : Tuesday, June 24, 2014 4:17:13 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
AlphDoti wrote:
Lolest! wrote:
This is what the quran says in sura 3:3

Quote:
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.

Qur'an actually says the Gospel and Torah are from God!

Then the followers poke holes in the torah and the gospels meaning they doubt God

@lonest! yes the Quran mentions Torah and Gospel as earlier scriptures revealed by God. I already told you in my post #36. I guess you didn't read it, eh!

Yes, Muslims we believe in all Divine Scriptures, but in their original form.

God sent to each nation a Prophet as a warner, and some of them with a Scripture as a guidance for that particular nation. The Suhuf to Abraham, the Torah (part of the Old Testament) to Moses, the Zabur (Psalms) to David, and the Injeel (New Testament) to Jesus.

None of these Scriptures remain in their original form now!

Now, as part of Allah's (Almighty God) original (ask me what do you mean original) plan, He finally sent Muhammad (pbuh) as the seal of all Prophets with the Qur'an as a guidance to all mankind, anywhere, anytime.

Before we get to the "ancient manuscripts",let us begin by noting that you have been quoting the Bible.Which book have you been using and why? It will clarify why, when and which book is appropriate for use by your standards.

On the issue of authenticity,how authentic is @guru's post and my reply here.
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