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SK not bothered with draft constitution?
mtaalam
#41 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:54:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 519
Please correct me but according to my understanding any person vying for presidency should not run for MP. If we apply that to the last elections it means Raila would not have been PM since he would not have made it as an MP. This also means that it would not be wise for the leader of a party to run for Presidency as he wold not be PM if he lost. Is that your understanding too?

...ili iwe funzo!
BAAK
#42 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:54:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 70
Good people,am yet to read the whole draft. But I have come across some very grave mistakes,as follows:




President not to run for member of parliament&hellip;Proposal sounds good,but what are the implications? Once you stand for president and lose,you stay in the cold for another 5 years! Yet,the presidency being the highest seat in the land,usually attracts the most &lsquo;astute&rsquo; politicians. A number of them,if they don&rsquo;t win the presidency,can make a major contribution towards policy issues in parliament as MPs or ministers (Remember Charity Ngilu,Mwai Kibaki,Raila Odinga etc) all stood at some point and failed,but went on to contribute in Parliament. Plus you do not want to keep senior & influential citizens like those idle for 5 years! NSIS will tell you they need to be kept busy. The ideal way,let all presidential candidates also contest parliamentary seat at the same time,whoever wins surrenders his MP&rsquo;s seat and a by-election is held in that constituency &ndash; the same way we deal with house speaker. THE PROPOSALS IN THE DRAFT MAKES THE PRESIDENCY VERY DULL AND UNATTRACTIVE,I DOUBT IT CAN ATTRACT ANY SERIOUS CONTENDER&hellip;EVEN ME,WITH ALL MY LIMITATIONS,WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO CONTEST!!




PM to automatically be leader of largest party or coalition&hellip;First things first&hellip;this draft does not define what a coalition is or when it is formed. Is it before elections or after? If two party stalwarts appear in a media briefing and declare a coalition has been formed there and then..will this still be a coalition? And recognized by who? A serious omission here! And this leader,how does the party get to choose him?? And what if the guy who won presidency is also leader of his party? And what if this largest party,has Mps from one or two regions only&hellip; say Rift Valley and Nyanza (most likely scenario in current set-up)??

Now,lets get down to business,this draft gives the PM virtually all the powers &ndash; As per the clauses there-in (read very carefully),the president is supposed only to act ON the advise of Prime minister not even WITH advise from prime minister. This basically means the constitution has prohibited the President from ever thinking for himself,he is supposed to wait for advise from PM - IF IT EVER COMES and then act!! These small words can lead to huge implications. And now,with all these powers,the masses have no say whatsoever on who wields them!! This negates the basic reason why democratic elections are held in the first place &ndash; to allow the people decide on who is best qualified to govern them. If the CoE has ears,this section needs to be redone afresh! Again about the leader of largest party&hellip;assume in a parliament of 210 MPs there are five parties. 4 of them have 40 members each&hellip;and one has 50 (to make 210). If we allow MPs to vote for PM,may be the leader of party with 50 members will not necessarily win!! As he does not have clear majority&hellip;If we go for leader of largest party,we end up with an unpopular leader..BELIEVE YOU ME THIS DRAFT WAS CREATED FOR & WITH PARTICULAR LEADERS IN MIND.. AGRAVE MISTAKE!! One way would be to allow each party with at least 25% members appoint one of their own to run for PM in parliament. Then the Mps vote for the one most qualified&hellip;



3. Now about these regional governments&hellip;I combed through the draft and didn&rsquo;t see any concrete role that these sub-governments will play.. If the desire was to enhance pace of economic development in the rural areas.. why not improve on CDF? The regional governments will only lead to more corruption and laxity and forum for idle minds&hellip;.Where will they be based by the way???? THIS IS THE NEXT MOST SERIOUS MISTAKE!!



4. Have they also thought about implications of doing away with provincial administration? What wrong has the Provincial administration done? Why not enact laws to correct these excesses if any? And are we entrusting the current functions of provincial administration into the hands of politicians?



GOOD PEOPLE&hellip;.THERE ARE VERY SERIOUS ERRORS IN THIS DRAFT. ..WE DO NOT KNOW WHERE TO RUN IF IT PASSES IN THE CURRENT FORM!!

As an Skerian,I acknowledge that I have benefited immensely from the info posted here by others. There4,I promise to assist others in the same way by responding to request for info,as long as am privileged in the subject issue..SK Pledge..
Tebes
#43 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 8:05:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
@ BAAK

I think we wont miss any politician if they run for the presidency and fail,in fact I would encourage a majority of them to run so that they loose go home! Do you currently miss Nyachae,Moody Awori,Mukhisa,Biwot et al? for me never,they are all a bunch of pigs!


Work like you will die tomorrow,plan like you will never die
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
B.Timer
#44 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/31/2008
Posts: 1,076
@ BAAK

Those are real issues - Kudos

Though I feel that we owe nothing to any politician who contests and loses as to arrange a soft landing for them.

Kenya is not short of astute persons. Infact there are many great minds of same age as persons mentioned who are not in politics.



B.timer
Dunia ni msongamano..
The Real Shaft
#45 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 10:00:00 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 839
BAAK*......

some bwana.....

before we shout at the roof tops that we are going under......

please read the process he doc had to go through before it is adopted.......

the draft is simply a DRAFT.......

we shall get the opportunity to sound the alarms about certain provisions...

when the time comes.....

please refrain from politicising a process...

that goes beyond the lifetime of any one in this forum.....

I'm the real Massey F.....shut your mouth
I'm the real Massey Fergu...... Shut your mouth....
kingauwi
#46 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:06:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/17/2009
Posts: 99
Political parties in Kenya are run like fiefdoms.

In both cases of the last two elections,the party that won was hurriedly sewn together just months before Dday.

These parties are mere vehicles to power devoid of any ideals or ideological philosophy.

That is why parliamentary form of government isnt a route for Kenya to take.

An eye for an eye will leave the nation blind
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win!
the sage
#47 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 2:56:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/20/2008
Posts: 367
Who cares about the Constitution. UK doesn't have one,as long as we have a social contract to do what is good for the society as a whole,why do we need all this nonsense.
McReggae
#48 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 4:31:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
l find the draft fine bora the issue of exec power is sorted out!

The chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world in which it is overestimated.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Intelligentsia
#49 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:42:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/1/2009
Posts: 2,436
2 preliminary obseravtions:


they have proposed to increase MPigs from abt 222 to 396 and so many other quasi-MPig leaches proposed in the regional parliaments/country govts - i.e the country's finances will be hemorrhaged even more - meaning we will be taxed even more to maintain all these tincans,
Recall clause is there...but guess who will decide on the criteria to use to recall MPigs? Parliament itself! The cat is supposed to bell itself,very funny...

..A woman who wants a child does not sleep in her clothes
mtaalam
#50 Posted : Friday, November 20, 2009 7:45:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 519
I was listening to Mutahi Ngunyi yesterday and he had some interesting things to say on this draft. One grabbed my attention.

The coup in Nigeria happened due of circumstances similar to what's being proposed in this draft,a president who is the Commander-in-Chief of the Kenya Defence Forces; and chairperson of the National Security Council yet the PM controls the Ministries including the ever important Finance Ministry. Imagine the Nigeria scenerio playing out here,the PM decided to under-fund or denies the military funding?

...ili iwe funzo!
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