Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
If God knew that Satan would rebel and Adam and Eve would sin, why did He create them?
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:Muriel wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:am wondering,anyone can explain this? Mythically speaking, so that He could exact obedience from Man and all 'creation'. Moses was learned in the Egyptian ways, as it's said. This meant that he was educated and socialized in a 'polytheistic' world, but this world couldn't sustain his political ambition. A monotheistic world born of polytheism could only exact strict obedience. Am wondering, Yes Moses was learned in Egyptian polytheistic ways, but have you considered that for the first decade or so of his life he got a different, monotheistic education? An education that polytheistic eduction and socialization and proximity to political power could not erase? Therefore I think monotheism was not born of polytheism after all. Or how do you see it? The assumption that lessons that were learnt in early childhood can't be unlearned isn't true. Otherwise there'd be nothing like freedom. For example, how would one explain Mohammed's move to monotheism in a largely polytheistic world? St. Ignatius Loyola is alleged to have said "Give me the child for seven years, and I will give you the man." The impact of information fed to a tabula rasa must not be underestimated at all costs. All information is retained and it creates the person. For example, one can get religious instruction when young but end up being atheist as an adult. The latter condition of being atheist was contributed to by the information he received earlier. Now how he interpreted and understood the information is what should be discussed. It's true that one can condition another to the effect of controlling or dominating. But this doesn't need a 'tabula rasa'. It needs the creation of an average set of conditions and ensuring most people adhere to them. And the first seven years are good for this because there's too much hunger for data then. The world is new and full of questions. It's easy to corrupt, or brainwash a person then. But authority can't really control everything. Or even anything. As you go microscopic you start meeting the Heisenberg principle.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
|
tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what?
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
|
tycho wrote: 'Logic' is a tool used to actualize human power, and is under constant transformation. And the challenge we are facing is that of understanding how logic has evolved and designing a new logic to meet our present challenges.
What is human power? I don't think logic really changes.Logic is hinged on the first reference which is the emotion/sensation spectrum.If there is one thing we can safely assume is that emotions have remained the same.Thus the prevailing emotional atmosphere will change the 'logic' of the day.It's a beautiful symphony.Words themselves are first interpreted as logic then as emotion because whatever stimuli an individual receives,it has to be interpreted(on a very subconscious level) from a "what's that got to do with me(self)" perspective.It's not from a selfish perspective but an inherit function of being conscious/receivers.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
symbols wrote:tycho wrote: 'Logic' is a tool used to actualize human power, and is under constant transformation. And the challenge we are facing is that of understanding how logic has evolved and designing a new logic to meet our present challenges.
What is human power? I don't think logic really changes.Logic is hinged on the first reference which is the emotion/sensation spectrum.If there is one thing we can safely assume is that emotions have remained the same.Thus the prevailing emotional atmosphere will change the 'logic' of the day.It's a beautiful symphony.Words themselves are first interpreted as logic then as emotion because whatever stimuli an individual receives,it has to be interpreted(on a very subconscious level) from a "what's that got to do with me(self)" perspective.It's not from a selfish perspective but an inherit function of being conscious/receivers. Emotion and feeling isn't linear, or easy to determine. For example, honor comes with guilt, but it's often difficult to express the guilt openly. Many a times the guilt may express itself in ways that the beholder isn't conscious of. Logic is conscious ordering, but what is subconscious ordering. Power lies in both, but most significantly in the latter. Perhaps you need to check on Bertrand Russell's thoughts on Wittgenstein's 'Tractatus logico philosophicus'. Logic must have a regression of meaning into the sea of the indefinite, and new language levels and systems of interaction must be found or used. That impulse, or need; the decision to convert nothing to something, the power behind the word, is the ultimate power. The shaper and chooser of logic. The user of logic.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
|
tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power. Yes,exactly because information is shared we remain unique.It means different things to different people.Even if all information is shared unless all are in unison in its meaning then they remaining unique.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power. Yes,exactly because information is shared we remain unique.It means different things to different people.Even if all information is shared unless all are in unison in its meaning then they remaining unique. It's much like the numbers in a sequence. Any apparently unique number can be expressed in terms of the other. Uniqueness is a matter of not seeing patterns; miscommunication.
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
|
tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote: 'Logic' is a tool used to actualize human power, and is under constant transformation. And the challenge we are facing is that of understanding how logic has evolved and designing a new logic to meet our present challenges.
What is human power? I don't think logic really changes.Logic is hinged on the first reference which is the emotion/sensation spectrum.If there is one thing we can safely assume is that emotions have remained the same.Thus the prevailing emotional atmosphere will change the 'logic' of the day.It's a beautiful symphony.Words themselves are first interpreted as logic then as emotion because whatever stimuli an individual receives,it has to be interpreted(on a very subconscious level) from a "what's that got to do with me(self)" perspective.It's not from a selfish perspective but an inherit function of being conscious/receivers. Emotion and feeling isn't linear, or easy to determine. For example, honor comes with guilt, but it's often difficult to express the guilt openly. Many a times the guilt may express itself in ways that the beholder isn't conscious of. Logic is conscious ordering, but what is subconscious ordering. Power lies in both, but most significantly in the latter. Perhaps you need to check on Bertrand Russell's thoughts on Wittgenstein's 'Tractatus logico philosophicus'. Logic must have a regression of meaning into the sea of the indefinite, and new language levels and systems of interaction must be found or used. That impulse, or need; the decision to convert nothing to something, the power behind the word, is the ultimate power. The shaper and chooser of logic. The user of logic. That will be an interesting read. The power of the word.In the beginning was the Word...
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 3/19/2013 Posts: 2,552
|
tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power. Yes,exactly because information is shared we remain unique.It means different things to different people.Even if all information is shared unless all are in unison in its meaning then they remaining unique. It's much like the numbers in a sequence. Any apparently unique number can be expressed in terms of the other. Uniqueness is a matter of not seeing patterns; miscommunication. Is zero a number?
|
|
|
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
|
symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:symbols wrote:tycho wrote:XSK wrote:tycho wrote:wilyum wrote:Wakanyugi wrote:seppuku wrote: I can, however, infer that you are referring to the God of the Bible. Discussions about God are often colored by religious context. For instance many assume, wrongly, that God is limited to the deity described in the Christian Bible. In fact the Bible describes at least two Gods: the 'God of vengeance' in the old Testament and the 'God who is love' in the new. Note that both beings are plural entities, not singular. I am sure other religions have their own definitions too with varying nuances. But I believe the important point is your personal belief and the relationship you have with God, whoever you consider him/her/it to be. To paraphrase Jesus words: 'Whom do you believe God is?' seppuku wrote: Now, the God of the Bible has certain salient characteristics revealed in his Book. Among them are:
1) Omniscience - God is all knowing
2) Omnipotence - God is all powerful
3) Benevolence - God is good
I think a further point arises here. God could be all these things but he has the ultimate freedom to act. Therefore God can (and does, I believe) set aside the exercise of any of these powers, or delegate them to his creation as he pleases. This partly explains the 'illusion of separation,' where the creations of God have fallen in the deep sleep of believing they are separate from their creator. Yet almost every religion hammers this point over and over again 'God is in us/ we are in God/ we are made in Gods image/ God is omnipresent' etc etc. I wonder why it is so hard to get this simple message. are you implying that am God in a way? Of course you are! @tycho Have you read these two books? 1. Conversations with God 2. Home with God I find your "philosophy" strangely related to what the author of those two books attempts to put across to the rest of the humanity. No. I haven't read the books. But I checked on them and I found some treasure. Like, the idea of reincarnation, I just saw it fade out of relevance. How is it possible that two different people, seperated in spacetime have similar thoughts or even personalities? We like to think we are unique as individuals, but experience has proven my bias wrong. Personalities have patterns to the very 'least of symbols'. And patterns mean information templates or 'morphogenetic' systems that are linked to what I may call a 'human domain', which in turn entails 'everything'. That is, everything is linked to everything in an information network that travels very very fast. To and fro. And all this cosmic data is energy, and is intelligent in that it's goal is to preserve and conserve itself always. Being, is a 'data instance' or a pattern instance, but there are many data instances, which can be acquired or experienced. One only has to reach for them. So what links me to 'your writer are the questions we'd like answered. And others before sought to answer these questions; and their answers are stored in quantum packets. If you sync with their frequencies then you can share the data sets. Therefore one can be whoever he chooses to be at any time, with minimum physical motion. Like in a dream. Life is a cosmic dream, and Man is the dreamer. The grand architect. Death, somehow, is so easily conquered. In fact, there's no death. Knowing isn't just remembering, but creating. Becoming. Then everyone is completely unique as each individual would be subject to different experiences even though based on the same template. Becoming what and from what? Completely unique when information is shared? All experience is shared, and therefore not unique or 'exclusive'. 'From what to what'? All symbolic interaction involves revealing and concealing. The concealment is potential energy. Becoming is experiencing redefinition, ascent of power. Yes,exactly because information is shared we remain unique.It means different things to different people.Even if all information is shared unless all are in unison in its meaning then they remaining unique. It's much like the numbers in a sequence. Any apparently unique number can be expressed in terms of the other. Uniqueness is a matter of not seeing patterns; miscommunication. Is zero a number? 'Zero' is a number.
|
|
|
Wazua
»
Club SK
»
Life
»
If God knew that Satan would rebel and Adam and Eve would sin, why did He create them?
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
|