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Why is Africa poor in general compared to the West?
Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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Nabwire wrote:I didnt bother reading most of the posts. First of all Drunkard, the Chinese built ships long before the whites ever did, and even when the whites eventually built ships, the Chinese ships were ten times bigger, so your whole analogy is a fallacy. Secondly, Africans are poor because they tend to hold the West as the SI unit of what they should or shouldnt do, this kind of mentality will ensure that you are forever controlled thus no room for development. Thirdly, I think that Africans tend to allow outside interests to determine their choices, the fact that you have foreigners circulating press on how Kenya will be doomed if they vote Uhuruto is coercion at its best! You cant preach democracy then turn around and tell people who they can and cannot vote for. But then again, thats how hegemonies come to be, so Africa is just playing into the wider scope of International Relations. Its amazing how people are shouting at the top of their voices the consequences of electing suspects, foreigners too, yet Bush was elected in 04 yet much of the International community considered him a war crimes suspect. The difference is the American people do not let outsiders mold their thinking especially when it comes to who to elect, in Africa on the other hand, you are expected to not have a mind of your own. Vote whoever you want, dont be coerced into voting someone else!! In a perfect world, Peter Kenneth would be President, but I wouldnt use coercion to get votes for him I am not here to debate history! But can you explain why USA has 8 time the tons of ships chinease have? I don't matter who build the first ship, what matters is who perfected it. Furthermore, why bring china in everytime we talk about Africa? Nabwire, I can't believe you somehow think just like this, Its amazing how people are shouting at the top of their voices the consequences of electing suspects, foreigners too, yet Bush was elected in 04 yet much of the International community considered him a war crimes suspectAmerican politics is different from Kenya politics anyone trying to justify ICC suspect with Bush is dumb! The only reason why we are more than a century behind the west is because of people like you!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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LOL nice to know I am the reason why Africa lags behind the West!! Carry on...
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/26/2011 Posts: 759
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Nabwire wrote:LOL nice to know I am the reason why Africa lags behind the West!! Carry on... People like you find ways to pull us down.... beer on me though if you ever see me!
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/16/2011 Posts: 196 Location: united states of africa
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Rollout wrote:Nabwire wrote:LOL nice to know I am the reason why Africa lags behind the West!! Carry on... People like you find ways to pull us down.... beer on me though if you ever see me! Rollout, ibitch inigga. Energy.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/24/2011 Posts: 833
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Pick n Pay wrote:mkeiyd wrote:Pick n Pay wrote:1-Because Africans have low IQs
2-Because the abuse Africans went through during colonialism made them worship the white man.
3-Because it is profitable for the white man to keep Africans poor. Laws of economics; for there to be wealth, there must be the wretched of the earth to be exploited.
I could go on forever.. I totally disagree. What is the total of African exports in USD? How about imports? How many cars,airplanes,smartphones,luxury items did Africa import? It is not in the interest of any one for Africa to be poor. A poor Africa helps no one. We don't produce much,we don't consume much. Why would we be good for the mzungu? Idiotic! We, and i must majority of us Africans,have poor judgement,even the learned professors suffer the same. In a suit,driving a top drawer Range Rover, yet can't obey a simple "Do not enter junction,until exit is clear" traffic sign. A snarl up ensues thanks to a whole professor. Where's thinking? What thinking?!? Nktest! We are not big thinkers. In fact, we are very PETTY. We are here in an election year, singing about "tukutane kwa debe" "Kenyans will decide" digging our own graves in the name of making a point. A point nobody will take note of, and when things will be thick as they are in Zimbabwe, we'll be blaming mzungu for all our mess. People should think beyond their noses. Sad as it is, overwhelming majority don't think.Good at academics but morons in thinking. As i said, SHIDA YA AFRICA NI UJINGA MWINGI. Let me start from where l agree with you. I agree we can be petty. I can point a million examples but lets leave it on that. I agree with you. I disagree on the other points: 1-The fact that you are importing a luxury car does not make you wealthy or does not mean you are wealthy. It just means you are a consumer. 2-Being a consumer country, that makes your country poor but makes the exporting country wealthy. This is caused by several reasons. Chief among them is that Western countries have been very successful in exporting their cultures around the world. Hence, most people will always demand western goods. 3-That is good for them, bad for the consuming country. Because,industries cannot develop if consumers in a country are demanding foreign goods. Buy local would be a good idea. How about we start producing cars locally? 4-It is in the interest of everyone that Africa remains poor because we are rich in minerals, oil, and we supply a lot of the world's consumable commodities. If our economies improve, our currencies strengthen,these exports will be too expensive. So Africa needs to remain poor. 5-Africa also needs to remain poor considering that poverty is an industry in itself. If we become self sufficient think of how many white people working in international organizations, NGOs etc will end up being jobless. 6-And, the economies of all western countries were built on the built of the backs of slaves and cheap labor of indigenous people. Of course you cannot enslave someone as they used to do in the 18th Century. Most of the slaves in 18th century, after they were freed they ended up under economic enslavement. They remained slaves.We remain, economic slaves. You probably know how much we owe the IMF. World Bank and other foreign governments. Even the Bible says that your creditor owns you. 7-Consider how much multinationals make in Africa compared to how much they pay Africans. Consider how much of that profit gets repatriated while we struggle paying our debt. You probably know issues o tax avoidance, tax evasion, safe havens, and transfer pricing by multinationals. And as Jesus said, You shall always have the poor among you. i hate to say this but what you say is quite true, but we all collectively like to bury our heads in the sand and kiss the white a$$ for more 'aid'. How much money is repatriated to the west as repayment of 'aid' per year from Africa? Please someone come up with a figure for 2012. While at it also tell us how long it ll take us to clear these debts (assuming we dont borrow anymore). My guess is a very long time!!!!! http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/how-to-rob-africa
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/20/2010 Posts: 412 Location: nairobi
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[/quote] [color=brown]i hate to say this but what you say is quite true, but we all collectively like to bury our heads in the sand and kiss the white a$$ for more 'aid'. How much money is repatriated to the west as repayment of 'aid' per year from Africa? Please someone come up with a figure for 2012. While at it also tell us how long it ll take us to clear these debts (assuming we dont borrow anymore). My guess is a very long time!!!!! http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/how-to-rob-africa[/color][/quote] Think about this: Daily there are at-least 100 kenyan visa applicants attending interviews at the US embassy. Total fee collected per day is 13k x 100 = 1.3M. For 20days(or 1 mnth) = 26M. Per year = kshs 312M. The other day the US govt gave a grant of USD $4M for the military. This equals Ksh 340M. How much do our students pay fees in US colleges? So much more. Bottom line: i beleive all the grant money that we receive is actually our own kenyan money. The only time you should be looking down on others is when you are helping them up.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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@Nabwire. You thinking is flawed because;
If you are saying Africa holds the West as the SI unit of what to do or not,how long has the west been in Africa or for how long has Africa known the world? Before Urabi Pasha,Batistuta,Da Gama n the like set foot on African shores,what was our SI unit? Any African alphabets? Paintings? Musical notes? Engineered machine? All encompassing education system? Literature? Clothing?Exploration? etc etc.
I mean we should have had them before the non-blacks came calling,since them,the non-blacks,had them to some extend.Arabs and their alphabets,the Chinese and their characters,the Indians and theirs,the Russians,the Romans etc.
The long and short,we DIDN'T have them simply because we've never been big thinkers.
@Nabwire, Voting suspects in is NOT the problem and nobody is coercing anyone. It is what happens with a president facing charges that will break the camel's back.
Two scenarios:
1. The president chooses to cooperate fully,spending many ours in foreign land,running gov't can't be smooth under such a presidency.Think assenting bills,chairing cabinet meetings,attending conferences,negotiating with our partners,the protocol nightmare of a president visiting Holland,not as a head of state but as an indictee. THINK!
2. A sitting president is shielded by our constitution from prosecution in any court. If the president elect chooses to hide behind katiba,the ICC won't see it that way, the world won't either. Then the short road to Zimbabwe way of life begins.
How wise would the above two be?
Comparing USA to Kenya ain't wise,you don't throw a feather weight boxer to square it with a heavy weight. Only a mjinga would do that. USA will bomb Pakistan/Iraq/Afghanstan and get away with it pursuing terrorists. What would happen if any of the countries i've mentioned above attempted to bomb a USA territory.
That is how the world is,unfair. The world order. You don't pick a loosing battle. Only a fool would.
@Pick n Pay, My bad,what i meant to say was import/export. That's why i was talking our Africa's trade volume. Both exports and imports. China exports ,but it also imports. The volumes are light years away from what Africa does.
Africa's GDP is 2.4% of the world's.Africa's population is 14% of the world's.
Importing/exporting luxury stuff is one indicator of economic power. We don't expect demand/supply for luxury to be higher in Mathare than in the upmarket. Do we?
The money NGO's use here come from the non-blacks countries. If it's all about employing their own,they would just spend the money in their home countries.How many non-blacks work in those NGO's? How many blacks work there? Percentage-wise,how many non-blacks work with NGOs compared to their total work force?
@ Murchr, There are some wrong things with SOME of our cultures. Marrying off 13 yr old girls off forcibly ain't that right,just as FGM. Dancing naked in the bush as entertainment? Naturalist? You and i know entertaining oneself in the bush naked is not sustainable. But i think it would feel nice. Heck i might even try it after elections.
@Rollout, I salute. Well said. Thinking big is not everyone's cup of tea in Africa.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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a simple way to find out solution to poverty is through precedence. Check out and study how the new economies have emerged. Brazil is now the 5th largest economy in the world. China's economy started the massive growth from 1989. Argentina, Equador, Middle East have within recent times removed the yoke of poverty. What is the link between these countries? The link between them is what is needed to be applied to Africa to reduce poverty. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 1/29/2013 Posts: 45 Location: South Africa
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Conservative estimates, Africa has lost $ 854 billion dollars since 1970 to 2008 thanks to tax evasion, tax avoidance, and transfer pricing by multinationals. The ratio of money lost to aid received stands at 2:1. You can read some more here http://www.gfintegrity.org/content/view/300/154/. Those figures should be higher considering we are in 2013. Further explanations of how poverty came about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxbmjDngois
Thing is, this gap is getting bigger and things are not about to change (if they ever will). The gap between rich and poor countries is at its highest level for over 30 years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaoGscbtPWU
"poverty is not natural. It is man-made and it can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings. Sometimes it falls on a generation to be great. YOU can be that great generation. Let your greatness blossom.” - Nelson Mandela Greed is fear.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/24/2011 Posts: 833
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Any African alphabets?[/color] Paintings? Musical notes? Engineered machine? All
the somali in the 9th century had a writing system which has not been deciphered to date but you raise valid points
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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pariah wrote:Any African alphabets?[/color] Paintings? Musical notes? Engineered machine? All
the somali in the 9th century had a writing system which has not been deciphered to date but you raise valid points Dont go far...just cross the border to the north, Ethiopia "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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murchr wrote:pariah wrote:Any African alphabets?[/color] Paintings? Musical notes? Engineered machine? All
the somali in the 9th century had a writing system which has not been deciphered to date but you raise valid points Dont go far...just cross the border to the north, Ethiopia Ethiopia's Amharic and Hebrew are both Semitic. May thinking would be they share genesis. Same as Japanese and Korean share the same genesis. That's my thinking. What the lack of alphabet for the rest of the Africa means we could not have had a well integrated education systems hence we could not research,compose nor record.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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pariah wrote:Any African alphabets?[/color] Paintings? Musical notes? Engineered machine? All
the somali in the 9th century had a writing system which has not been deciphered to date but you raise valid points The pyramids of Giza were the tallest manmade structures for a whooping 3800 years straight.  As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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mkeiyd wrote:murchr wrote:pariah wrote:Any African alphabets?[/color] Paintings? Musical notes? Engineered machine? All
the somali in the 9th century had a writing system which has not been deciphered to date but you raise valid points Dont go far...just cross the border to the north, Ethiopia Ethiopia's Amharic and Hebrew are both Semitic. May thinking would be they share genesis. Same as Japanese and Korean share the same genesis. That's my thinking. What the lack of alphabet for the rest of the Africa means we could not have had a well integrated education systems hence we could not research,compose nor record. Any knowledge is dynamic and starts from a centre point then spreads . In Europe, Greeks were the first to use the alphabet as the rest slept. The info spread sslowly to the rest of Europe, including England. http://www.ancientscripts.com/greek.html
Quote:The Greeks were the first Europeans to learn to write with an alphabet, and from them alphabetic writing spread to the rest of Europe, eventually leading down to all modern European alphabets. Incidentally, the Greeks tried writing once before. Between 1500 and 1200 BCE, For sub saharan Africa, it was just a matter of time before writting skills spread from Ethiopia, Mali, Somalia or Zimbabwe or direct from India and China through Mombasa. Likewise, there were skills within Subsaharan Africa that would also be passed on to the rest of the world. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2010 Posts: 134 Location: Kenya
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What is evident so far from this post is that lots of people suffer from a racial inferiority complex(such statements as Africans have low IQs).You can't get anywhere with such an attitude self confidence is A MUST if we are to achieve anything.
Poor political leadership is definitely a contributor,from our founding father's land grabbing addiction to MO1's error.
Has the West contributed?Yes.Remember liberalization and golden handshakes?How did it work for us did it solve all the problems?
Does the West want us to be economic successes/independent?I don't know I think if they could they would engineer a perfect state of poverty/prosperity where we are not too rich to challenge their influence on the world stage but enough to provide a market for their goods definitely too poor to process our natural resources and to provide cheap labour for their factories?
But the West is mostly capitalist and opportunities to make money from us determine what economic status they support.
But looking to the future the most important issues we need solved are:
1.Food/Agriculture
Agriculture should improved so we are food secure.Hunger must end.Can't go anywhere unless we feed ourselves.
2.Education
The greatest enabler,make secondary education free and compulsory.Make admission to University fair and based on merit,better access to student loans.
3.Politics/Leadership
Vote P.K.A look at his competition reveals what exactly is wrong with our leaders.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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mkeiyd wrote:murchr wrote:pariah wrote:Any African alphabets?[/color] Paintings? Musical notes? Engineered machine? All
the somali in the 9th century had a writing system which has not been deciphered to date but you raise valid points Dont go far...just cross the border to the north, Ethiopia Ethiopia's Amharic and Hebrew are both Semitic. May thinking would be they share genesis. Same as Japanese and Korean share the same genesis. That's my thinking. What the lack of alphabet for the rest of the Africa means we could not have had a well integrated education systems hence we could not research,compose nor record. Stop trying to disposses the Ethiopian people of their culture and heritage. They believed in themselves hence the survival of their culture(amharic alphabet). On your other issue....why paintings and not pottery, has it crossed your mind that maybe we never valued pictures as such but valued things (pots, carvings etc) "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/15/2010 Posts: 134 Location: Kenya
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Bush a war criminal? maybe.but the difference between his case and ours.Most of the h/ware used in the war was made in the us and benefited US companies(lockheed martin GM etc.),we used imported pangas.Most of the casualties were foreigners Iraqis,we killed neighbours.American companies got reconstruction deals,we've got IDPs.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:pariah wrote:Any African alphabets?Paintings? Musical notes? Engineered machine? All
the somali in the 9th century had a writing system which has not been deciphered to date but you raise valid points Dont go far...just cross the border to the north, Ethiopia Hawa si mweusi kama sisi!! Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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http://www.taneter.org/writing.html
Ancient Africa has the world's oldest and largest collection of ancient writing systems. Evidence of such dates to pre-historic time, and can be found in various regions of the continent. By contrast, Europe's oldest writing, Greek was not in use until c. 1400 BC and is largely derived from older African scripts. The oldest Asian writing, cuneiform dates to the reign of Gudea of Lagash (2144 - 2124 BC). As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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guru267 wrote:murchr wrote:pariah wrote:Any African alphabets?Paintings? Musical notes? Engineered machine? All
the somali in the 9th century had a writing system which has not been deciphered to date but you raise valid points Dont go far...just cross the border to the north, Ethiopia Hawa si mweusi kama sisi!! Sasa umenza ubaguzi wa rangi? Truthfully speaking, poverty is everywhere, the glitz and glamour that u see on TV is an illussion, the reality is there are homeless people, beggers and street families everywhere in the world, you just need to travel and see "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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