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Bob :'Safaricom a bigger, & more trusted, brand than the church'
Rank: Hello Joined: 5/29/2012 Posts: 2
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It's not strange that we have people who were brought up believing in God opting to turn away from theism to embrace atheism. Everyone is allowed to have their own worldview in life but when someone embraces atheism and vehemently denies the existence of God, there is much need to worry because saying "There is no God" is an illogical position. Why? Has the atheist investigated every claim for the existence of God and refuted it soundly? Has the atheist investigated every scientific evidence for the existence of God and disproved it? Has the atheist travelled all over the world, and into outer space, transcended every galaxy to prove that there is no God? Has the atheist considered all the scientific evidence showing that the universe had a one-time beginning and that every thing that began to exist must have a beginner?
The answer to all these, if there is an atheist out there, is a definite "NO". So how then can someone boldly declare that "There is no God" when obviously he doesn't have any evidence to refute the existence of God. It is illogical to imagine that this fine-tuned orderly universe came about due to the random assemblage of molecules by accident, and worse still, to believe that the universe came out of nothing. If there is no God, then why do we have something (the universe) instead of nothing? Either, everything created itself or something created everything. You do not need a PhD in molecular biology to know which is the most logical conclusion of the two premises because nothing produces nothing. Nothing is exactly that - No thing! We all know that a plant must grow out of a seed, a tuber, a cutting or whatever it is. We all know that a human must come out of a sperm and an ovum fused together, so why should we believe that the universe came out of nothing?
In my interaction with atheists I have realized that they claim not to have faith yet they fearlessly believe that the universe came out of nothing, with no evidence to back them up. There is no evidence to show how life can come out of non-life (read evolution) and such a position must be held entirely on the basis of faith. Remember, faith is believing something to be true even if you don't have all the information about it. so atheists cannot disprove the existence of God - they only try to do it by faith. They have faith that atheism is true, thus defeating logic and the objectivity of science. People who deny the existence of God do so because they want to live a free life without any rules and do as they like because without God, no one will hold you accountable.
Why should an atheist have an inherent desire to do good to others? And why is this desire shared by the whole human race? Where did he get this desire if there is no moral law? Every law must have a lawgiver and if there is a moral law, there must be a lawgiver.
Denying God's existence is like walking a tight rope and the stakes are very high. And in light of historical philosophical and scientific evidence for the existence of God, one can't help but ask himself: Who needs more faith, the atheist or the theist?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/7/2007 Posts: 2,182
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chavz your post is too long LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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panomaz wrote: To all you atheist!!! Matthew 16:26 "What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"
Well, the bible also says to murder everybody that works on the Sabbath day..So I guess we should hack everyone that works on Saturday/Sunday to death if we are to follow what the bible says. I don't believe in your bible. Here is what it says about working on the Sabbbath day. The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT) What a loving God, always threating murder at every chance he gets.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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martcentre wrote:If you believe that there is devil, then God also exists. the reason why i believe the devil is there is because he is more visible on earth with his evil deeds. How would you explain Vudu, Black Magic, Charm or whatever name you want to call it. and don't tell me it does not exist we all know uchawi exists. And when i talk of black magic am not referring to those jobless Kenyans who have discovered an opportunity to exploit Kenyans by pretending to be Witch doctors. Am talking about the real ones who make men and women of integrity eat grass like goats and those make stolen TV's get stuck on peoples backs.. ref to 2008 PEV in Mombasa. To me this explains that there is some power beyond what we can see. Witch doctors use the powers of the evil one 'Devil'. and if devil exists then God too is there to protect you and me from the evil one. --------------------------------------------------
Dude, get real, it's 2012 and you are still talking about black magic? Stop being so gullible my friend. I am not a prude, but I just can't justify your post with an answer. C'mon man, black magic? Really? I would like to encourage you to open up your mind and quit being so naive....You would be surprised what an objective mind can do for you, stop believing in uchawi for starters, get real.
The biggest mistake that atheists make it to blame God for the Mistakes of Human Beings, Human Beings brought Aids unto themselves, Tobacco Companies are selling cancer by stick and beer companies are selling diabetes by bottle. --------------------------------------------------
Did you just blame cancer on cigarette companies and diabetes on beer companies? Unbelievable.
Take time to understand God and what he represents. and you will find true peace.
[b]I Have true peace, I am so much at peace with my life than I have ever been. I even try to make other people's life better with some of the humble philanthropic work that I do for underprivileged kids, so that they too can achieve some degree of peace in their life. Am more at peace now than I ever did when I was religious. So please, stop assuminng that just because one does not believe in your god, they do not have peace in their lives. That's a fallacy that your religions scare you with so as to tighten that noose around your neck. --------------------------------------------------
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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[quote=scout_boy] @hamburglar, Quote:That's why I say, getting out of the shackles of religion gives one a better vision of the reality . That is not necessary true, Mao and Stalin got out of "these shackles" and ended up leading to the death of at least 100 million innocent lives. Mao and Stalin killed because of ideological disagreement, they did not kill because of atheism, they were motivated by communism. Thus, to lay these crimes at the foot of atheism is simply incorrectGod and religion are two different things and might not be directly related as you may think. Religions worship God, I don't see how religion and God can be mutually exclusive. Religion as you have said is a cultural meme.We as subsaharan Africans together with the Norwegians might worship the same God but end up in different religions because of the cultural differences. Only difference is that religion in these industrialized countries such as Norway is almost becoming extinct, and that to some degree explains why these western countries have better living standards than subsaharan Africans. They are choosing to employ logic instead of faith to solve their problems and it's working for them. Quote:Mmarto, thanks for being civil, but I don't need to pray to have faith, I would rather use logic than faith any day. Never rely too much on logic.Not all decisions you will make in this life will be logical.There is a certain species on this earth who along with logic use intuition.You know them. I beg to differ, always rely on logic. Logic teaches you to use your brain, to ask questions, to seek answers, faith teaches you to believe with no questions asked. That's why pastors and priests are fleecing people unabated because theists have been told not to use logic, to rely on faith and ask no questions. Always ask questions, always...
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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[quote=martcentre]If you believe that there is devil, then God also exists. the reason why i believe the devil is there is because he is more visible on earth with his evil deeds. How would you explain Vudu, Black Magic, Charm or whatever name you want to call it. and don't tell me it does not exist we all know uchawi exists. And when i talk of black magic am not referring to those jobless Kenyans who have discovered an opportunity to exploit Kenyans by pretending to be Witch doctors. Am talking about the real ones who make men and women of integrity eat grass like goats and those make stolen TV's get stuck on peoples backs.. ref to 2008 PEV in Mombasa.
To me this explains that there is some power beyond what we can see. Witch doctors use the powers of the evil one 'Devil'. and if devil exists then God too is there to protect you and me from the evil one.
Dude, get real, it's 2012 and you are still talking about black magic? Stop being so gullible my friend. I am not a prude, but I just can't justify your post with an answer. C'mon man, black magic? Really? I would like to encourage you to open up your mind and quit being so naive....You would be surprised what an objective mind can do for you, stop believing in uchawi for starters, get real. Your kind are the ones who are going around the country labeling people wachawi and lynching them due your misguided beliefs.
The biggest mistake that atheists make it to blame God for the Mistakes of Human Beings, Human Beings brought Aids unto themselves, Tobacco Companies are selling cancer by stick and beer companies are selling diabetes by bottle. We all know that but we will still blame God when we finally get lung cancel. We have tampered with and polluted the environment so much that we are to blame for all our problems, If a pastor decides to steal from the congregation that is not God, that is a human being stealing from another human being, if a Father decides to sodomize young boys, those are individual deeds that will be judged individually. Sin in Church has not started today, even when Jesus was around he would find men of God gambling in the house of the Lord. That did not make God a gambler.
Did you just blame cancer on cigarette companies and diabetes on beer companies? Unbelievable.
From time immemorial human being has always been spiritual and they have always believed in some form of higher power. our great great grand fathers worshiped facing mount Kenya, others worshiped their cows, while their counterparts in India had their idols. How would you explain the fact that Africans believed is some higher power even before they knew the Asians existed or got influences by Europeans with their Christianity.
There is a difference between religion and Spirituality. All the churches that are fighting each other and stealing from the congregation are not mentioned anywhere in the bible. God is interested in your souls not your church. There is a possibility that most of them do not represent God or his interests. but that does not mean God does not exist.
Take time to understand God and what he represents. and you will find true peace
Find true peace? What exactly does that mean? I am so much at peace with my life than I have ever been. I even try to make other people's life better with some of the humble philanthropic work that I do for underprivileged kids, so that they too can achieve some degree of peace in their life. Am more at peace now than I ever did when I was religious. So please, stop assuminng that just because one does not believe in your god, they do not have peace in their lives. That's a fallacy that your religions scare you with so as to tighten that noose around your neck.
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Rank: Member Joined: 12/17/2011 Posts: 887
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Sufficiently Philanga....thropic wrote:panomaz wrote: To all you atheist!!! Matthew 16:26 "What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"
Good one! @Humburger, countries that have gained the whole world(the earthly riches, what is seen) tend to lose their soul(what is not seen), their essence, meaning the Africans you call poor(by sight, what your physical eyes show/tell u) are actually the richest. Countries with a poor soul(what can't be seen), your essence, have the highest suicide rates! http://en.wikipedia.org/...untries_by_suicide_rate
Hey, what's the point of praying and worshipping and having this mythical soul you are talking about, while these same Africans that have this "soul" are starving to death by the dozens. No thanks, I prefer to keep my earthly riches and Africans can keep thier souls and their poverty.
I don't get the correlation of suicide to atheism because everybody from every walk of life including theists commit suicide so your point is not very relevant to the subject.
Going by your reasoning, I can also say that countries with the richest soul have the highest genocide rates. But that wouldn't be relevant either. @Humburger, is your soul, your essence at rest/peace? I hope so! Dude, I am at peace...Always have and I always will, you know why? because I conciously keep myself at peace. I have theists who are in a state of turmoil, praying for god to answer their prayers for things in theri lives, complaining everyday how hard life is. Unlike them, I don't depend on God and that's why I am at peace. Plus you are getting it twisted, you don't have to be religious for you to be a good person. That's hogwash.
You people keep praying to god and he never delivers and then find yourselves in more turmoil because instead of using reason to find solutions in your life, you depend on a god that is more interested in sending people to hell to burn in eternal fire or whatever that crap you believe in is than he is helping his children who are suffering. Maybe you should ask him what his priorities are...Keep praying for help from this god, you will be waiting for a long long time for those prayers to be answered.
In the meantime, some of us understand that we need to use our brains and resources to get solutions to our questions...And as far as am concerned, this system has worked very successfully for me.@Muganda, good points you have raised!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/4/2010 Posts: 1,668 Location: nairobi
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No sooner had the digital ink about the West and cannibalism dried than Eugene,31,from Miami ate his friend for dinner, literally. Just as i explained before,to me these are after-effects of capitalism without a soul. http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...orld-us-canada-18241494
 Click here to see the horrific pictures of the victim.WARNING-GRAPHIC http://blogs.villagevoic...2/05/miami_cannibal.php
This other man in New Jersey stabbed himself and threw his won intestines to the cops a few days ago http://blogs.villagevoic...05/new_jersey_man_2.php
See the gory pictures here-WARNING-GRAPHIC http://www.barstoolsport...nes-at-police-officers/
mmarto wrote:@ a4architect.com "True..rich countries e.g USA,Australia,Northern Europe usually have very most of these bizzare cases e.g cannibalism.."
I trust that you are not one of those who pick an incident and extrapolate it to all. Cannibalism is a practise in places like papua new guinea, jungles of the amazon and, yes in very few african tribal communities eons ago. Why pick and brand africans as cannibalis when the west is so full of worse evils. As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/16/2007 Posts: 1,320
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@hambugler Kindly read through this post by @ chavs and respond to it. chavz wrote:It's not strange that we have people who were brought up believing in God opting to turn away from theism to embrace atheism. Everyone is allowed to have their own worldview in life but when someone embraces atheism and vehemently denies the existence of God, there is much need to worry because saying "There is no God" is an illogical position. Why? Has the atheist investigated every claim for the existence of God and refuted it soundly? Has the atheist investigated every scientific evidence for the existence of God and disproved it? Has the atheist travelled all over the world, and into outer space, transcended every galaxy to prove that there is no God? Has the atheist considered all the scientific evidence showing that the universe had a one-time beginning and that every thing that began to exist must have a beginner?
The answer to all these, if there is an atheist out there, is a definite "NO". So how then can someone boldly declare that "There is no God" when obviously he doesn't have any evidence to refute the existence of God. It is illogical to imagine that this fine-tuned orderly universe came about due to the random assemblage of molecules by accident, and worse still, to believe that the universe came out of nothing. If there is no God, then why do we have something (the universe) instead of nothing? Either, everything created itself or something created everything. You do not need a PhD in molecular biology to know which is the most logical conclusion of the two premises because nothing produces nothing. Nothing is exactly that - No thing! We all know that a plant must grow out of a seed, a tuber, a cutting or whatever it is. We all know that a human must come out of a sperm and an ovum fused together, so why should we believe that the universe came out of nothing?
In my interaction with atheists I have realized that they claim not to have faith yet they fearlessly believe that the universe came out of nothing, with no evidence to back them up. There is no evidence to show how life can come out of non-life (read evolution) and such a position must be held entirely on the basis of faith. Remember, faith is believing something to be true even if you don't have all the information about it. so atheists cannot disprove the existence of God - they only try to do it by faith. They have faith that atheism is true, thus defeating logic and the objectivity of science. People who deny the existence of God do so because they want to live a free life without any rules and do as they like because without God, no one will hold you accountable.
Why should an atheist have an inherent desire to do good to others? And why is this desire shared by the whole human race? Where did he get this desire if there is no moral law? Every law must have a lawgiver and if there is a moral law, there must be a lawgiver.
Denying God's existence is like walking a tight rope and the stakes are very high. And in light of historical philosophical and scientific evidence for the existence of God, one can't help but ask himself: Who needs more faith, the atheist or the theist?
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/24/2011 Posts: 833
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[quote=selah]Apparently Bob collymore decided to take on the church by saying safaricom is bigger& more trusted than the church..which church is he referring to..because to my understanding the church is the body of Christ.... http://conversations.nok...E2%80%99s-mobile-magic/[/quote] if its the kenyan churches that give miracles for a fee, he s right
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