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Mob justice made in Kenya - Graphic
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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mwenza wrote:Total anti-climax. Was waiting to see him dying sloooowly! .....huyo jamaa ako na nguvu, yaani he could still move after that fire, and it ends akitafuta sehemu nyeti!!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2011 Posts: 322 Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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I watched the video in its entirety.
Twice.
Because what I saw was not two thieves condemned to death by an angry mob...
What I saw was the very thing that everyone sits here and complains about, yet cannot figure out why it keeps happening.
What I saw were two men being burned alive after having been beaten. And we call them thieves, yet the video does not show them stealing. And if it did, do we know that the potatoes were not owed them? Did they pay but the owner decided "not enough"? Did they have a chance to plead their case in court? Did they get a fair trial? Did they get to prove their innocence, or for that matter, have their guilt proven and reinforced? Were they set up? Were they manoki? All this we don't know, because someone yelled "thief!" and we all decided to be prosecutor, judge, jury, and summary executioner.
Who yelled thief? Were they credible? Were they sane? What makes their word worth more than the two men's word? Their tribe? Their color? Their clothing? What? And why do we believe them thieves when the video shows us no theft, just murder. But we see the video and assume, on people's lives, because someone "said so" that they "must be".
I didn't see two thieves lynched.
I saw Kenyan self-hate.
Because it is the same spirit of self-hate that lynched these men WITHOUT DUE PROCESS and WITHOUT THEIR DAY IN COURT that allows a crooked politician, or a crooked businessperson, or a tribalist, to point the very same finger at a man, or at all of the common man, and condemn them to a life of poverty and corruption... without the common man having a chance to prove their worth, their innocence, what they are owed, what they were cheated out of, what they were denied, or simply what they failed to do, because to the crooked ones to which we constantly hate, they, just like those here that have condemned others without knowing all the facts, have themselves decided that the lives and livelihoods of the wanaichi are worth less than a f***ing bag of potatoes, and therefore do not deserve a chance to experience fairness or justice.
Best,
Hill
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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@Jasonhill well said. And it is the same self-hate that led to PEV when `thief` was replaced with `tribe`. He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Most of the reponses were based on the action against THIEVES, not on their innosence or guilt!!!!......you guys climb down from your high horses, I insist that I got no mercy for 'em thieves, once a victim you will feel my stand!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/24/2011 Posts: 407 Location: Nairobi,Kenya
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jasonhill wrote:I watched the video in its entirety.
Twice.
Because what I saw was not two thieves condemned to death by an angry mob...
What I saw was the very thing that everyone sits here and complains about, yet cannot figure out why it keeps happening.
What I saw were two men being burned alive after having been beaten. And we call them thieves, yet the video does not show them stealing. And if it did, do we know that the potatoes were not owed them? Did they pay but the owner decided "not enough"? Did they have a chance to plead their case in court? Did they get a fair trial? Did they get to prove their innocence, or for that matter, have their guilt proven and reinforced? Were they set up? Were they manoki? All this we don't know, because someone yelled "thief!" and we all decided to be prosecutor, judge, jury, and summary executioner.
Who yelled thief? Were they credible? Were they sane? What makes their word worth more than the two men's word? Their tribe? Their color? Their clothing? What? And why do we believe them thieves when the video shows us no theft, just murder. But we see the video and assume, on people's lives, because someone "said so" that they "must be".
I didn't see two thieves lynched.
I saw Kenyan self-hate.
Because it is the same spirit of self-hate that lynched these men WITHOUT DUE PROCESS and WITHOUT THEIR DAY IN COURT that allows a crooked politician, or a crooked businessperson, or a tribalist, to point the very same finger at a man, or at all of the common man, and condemn them to a life of poverty and corruption... without the common man having a chance to prove their worth, their innocence, what they are owed, what they were cheated out of, what they were denied, or simply what they failed to do, because to the crooked ones to which we constantly hate, they, just like those here that have condemned others without knowing all the facts, have themselves decided that the lives and livelihoods of the wanaichi are worth less than a f***ing bag of potatoes, and therefore do not deserve a chance to experience fairness or justice.
Best,
Hill
@Jason..Your comments are head-on .That is our main undoing..However note that out here its a Jungle man!! Our Society is so full of twisted characters hence jungle law is the only way out.This is a society with no faith in the justice system,a society at war with itself..so I think this is just another seriously challenging phase that countries like ours have to go through..and until we can regain confidence in our justice system again,these scenes will continue to happen. Hope is not a strategy
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Rank: Member Joined: 1/22/2011 Posts: 322 Location: Chicago, IL, USA
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@sanity and @McReggae, thank you for your comments.
You know, the West came into Kenya and much of Africa and told the folks there that the "old school" way of having wise elders decide the fate of criminality was "primitive", and that there needed to be "proper courts and justice systems", knowing full well that the elder system was inexpensive, efficient, sensible, and appropriate.
Basically, an expensive, confusing, wig-wearing bureaucracy was formed, that, at the end of the day, simply protected the rich from the poor, and that pushed forward Western (and their minion's) agendas. It was a maze that the common man, if they fell into, could not navigate. It was something no common man could understand or approach, and required expensive solicitors and attorneys for one to navigate, therefore limiting its fairness to those that can "afford fairness".
In the African mind, justice is far more simple a journey than that, because the aim isn't to create a ball of confusion and control. The aim is to seek justice and fairness, while maintaining order.
I'm not asking for an overnight Africanization of a complex system of laws and codes. I understand the complexities of that. But I would at least liked to have seen the men brought before an elder, or even a "kangaroo court" where they could have been represented and had a chance to face their accusers and be judged by a jury of their peers. Had the crowd assembled to arrest them and set up SOME semblance of a trial, right there in the streets, I could at least stomach the fact that the men's voices were heard. Not that this is a solution to reforming judicial issues that may exist, but at least it shows that the interest of the people is in due process, not summary execution.
@McReggae I understand your position and I empathize. And I'm not saying that a robber who uses physical and sexual violence should not be hanged. In fact, rapists steal something from women and their families that can never be repaid or replaced, and I am all for sending rapists to the gallows; simple thieves sans attempted murder or sans rape, not so much. However, in the interest of society, order, justice, and fairness, or even in the self-serving interest of ensuring that all witness what has happened and the consequences, in order to warn would-be perpetrators present and future, each and every human being deserves a fair and full objective trial- their day in court.
Even the all-knowing, all-seeing Lord God will give us our time to speak and give account on judgment day, and gives us every day of our lives to live, for a time- what period of time is necessary in His eyes- when He already knows the outcomes, and has known since the beginning of time.
Best,
Hill
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Yaani people are watching the video?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Hill, Do you for sure know what transpired just before the clip you watched, maybe there was a kangaroo court but the cameraman chose not to cover it!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 5/13/2010 Posts: 869 Location: Nairobi
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Wendz wrote:Wooooii... i was warned... but you see, the more you are warned, the more the urge to view it yourself..... I thought i was strong....
I know too well what thieves are capable of, i know all the evils they can do to you. I want to strongly not feel anything for these thieves, but i just cant.... to be honest, i just cant stand seeing someone burn like that... thief or saint! Me too Wendz... Woooi! ....above all, to stand.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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McReggae wrote:Most of the reponses were based on the action against THIEVES, not on their innosence or guilt!!!!......you guys climb down from your high horses, I insist that I got no mercy for 'em thieves, once a victim you will feel my stand!!!! It happened several yrs ago but this incident haunts me to this day.IT was in the papers A Mzee was taking her little grand daughter to school I cant remember the estate he came across a group of women who suspected he had kidnapped the kid instead of verifying what the old man was telling them,They started shouting and accusing the old man of kidnap. Within minutes the crowd which had had enough with rampant kidnap cases in the area, descended on the old man killing him infront of the kid by the time her parents came to the scene to rescue the old man,His lifeless body was on fire. The same thing happened to a kamzee in Mombasa after a suspect who was being pursued by a crowd in the dark after stealing a bike placed it on an old man as he was struggling to remove the bike from his neck the crowd mistook him for the thief ....He was lynched. This two stories show you how most Mob justice ends up killing innocent people which could have been avoided by following the right channel. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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