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Price Control Act for essential commodities
StatMeister
#31 Posted : Tuesday, June 29, 2010 8:38:09 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/23/2010
Posts: 868
Location: La Islas Galápagos
how can they regulate maize prices without regulating fertilizer? and when weather fails, farmers overprice commodities to break even. stop that and they will move to unregulated products e.g. barley, tea, floriculture, et al. kenya will be twice as hungry or food twice as expensive
A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work
Sasha
#32 Posted : Tuesday, June 29, 2010 9:16:42 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/5/2007
Posts: 627
The only way price controls will work is if the government buys these commodities from the farmer at the market price and sell to the manufacturers at a subsidised cost. Say maize for example, if the market price for a bag maize is Kshs 1,000/-, the government can buy the maize at that price from the farmer and sell it to the millers at say Kshs 600/- or at the price the miller will be able to continue milling profitably. The miller can then be enforced to sell at a regulated price. Same thing for sugar! Problem here comes where mukiha was talking about how this will be enforced.

For fuel, it is more tricky. Keeping in mind that these marketers make a very small portion of the price we pay for fuel, again it is down to the government to reduce these 'taxes' they impose on the fuel. We know the prices of crude. The ordinary mwananchi running a petrol station will only sell at the price he/she will make reasonable profit. And that price is informed by the price they get from the marketers!

I believe price controls can work, but the problem is enforcement and the government's will to help the mwananchi. Seeing the way our government works, can we trust them to have our best interests at heart?
mukiha
#33 Posted : Tuesday, June 29, 2010 10:14:23 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Sasha wrote:
The only way price controls will work is if the government buys these commodities from the farmer at the market price and sell to the manufacturers at a subsidised cost. Say maize for example, if the market price for a bag maize is Kshs 1,000/-, the government can buy the maize at that price from the farmer and sell it to the millers at say Kshs 600/- or at the price the miller will be able to continue milling profitably. The miller can then be enforced to sell at a regulated price. Same thing for sugar! Problem here comes where mukiha was talking about how this will be enforced.

The idea of buying at a high price and selling at a low one was tried before and it failed in the face of corruption and opportunism. Firs by Simeon Nyachae in the 1990s and recently by Bill Ruto.

In the 90s, GoK was buying grain at 600 and selling at 400. Traders saw the loophole and they bought and sold back to NCPB making a cool 200bob per bag! And you didn't any connections to do that! Those with connections to the high and mighty simply moved delivery notes and purchase orders without moving any grain.

What we need is MARKET REGULATION; not PRICE CONTROL.

The two are totally different.

Regulation of grain market can be done by NCPB; buying to stabilise the farmers prices when they go too low and selling to millers when prices go too high. The same thing that CBK does with forex. But for that to work, we need to inject money into NCPB for it to build up proper reserves.

Similar regulation can be done in petroleum by NOCK. But a look at their prices will tell you that Total, KK etc are not way off the mark.

Still; the question remains: who will determine what the fair prices are?
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
the sage
#34 Posted : Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:04:08 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/20/2008
Posts: 367
@KulaRaha, taxes are 50-60% of the cost of petroleum. There is only one outdated refinery that cannot refine cheaper crude and a dilapidated railway forces marketers to use tankers which are more expensive.
Point: Fix the infrastructure and distribution system and costs will come down.
2012
#35 Posted : Wednesday, June 30, 2010 11:28:20 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Kibaki is an economist and I'll be shocked if he assents.

BBI will solve it
:)
Sasha
#36 Posted : Wednesday, June 30, 2010 12:56:45 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 9/5/2007
Posts: 627
@mukiha: The flaw in that 90s scheme was that anyone could buy from NCPB. What the govt can do is exclusively sell to licensed millers. The millers would not want to buy from third parties who are after a profit.

However, I agree with you on the need for market regulation rather than price controls. In addition to pumping money into NCPB, it (NCPB) would need to be run as efficiently as humanly possible! Tall order if you ask me!
mukiha
#37 Posted : Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:24:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
2012 wrote:
Kibaki is an economist and I'll be shocked if he assents.

Yeah! And you forget that he was the one who perfected the art of price controls when he was Finance Minister in the 1970s. His budgets (Finance Bills) were virtually a list of prices of various commodities.

This lead Kenyans to believe that budgets are are the days when new prices are announced. Every time prices were changed outside the budget day, we called it a "mini-budget".

In a bid to reduce the practice of hoarding by traders in the run-up to budget day, Saitoti slowly moved the price announcements away from the budget day. People complained because he had many "mini-budgets"!
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
VituVingiSana
#38 Posted : Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:37:41 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,354
Location: Nairobi
Rahatupu wrote:
WE should look at South America and their experimentation on "pure capitalisitic" systems where regulation is nil. Conclusion massive economic failure of the economies and success of the multinational firms there. This is what we don't see because of our "ties" to exploitative KK, Total, Unga etc.

The case of petroleum and electricity deserve regulation. In any case monopoly in the former and cartels in the later are good enough reasons for regulation.

What a load of CRAP... Screw being polite... At some point we have to tackle idiocy head on!

Which country in S.America experimented with "pure capitalisitic" (sic) systems?

The best managed economy is Chile which is also the 'freest' economy. Much better than Kenya.

How is KK, Total or Unga 'exploitative'? [There are multiple millers. Don't buy Unga products buy Mombasa Millers' products]

We need competition but I don't go to shady petrol stations like Hashi... but I have a choice. There is government subdsidized NOCK too...
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#39 Posted : Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:40:36 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,354
Location: Nairobi
@sasha - Get real... Even the Communist+Socialist countries with command & control failed... WHY???

They produced low quality goods for consumption... There was no competition... If not for the brilliant Jews + German engineers (captured/abducted after WW2)... Russia/USSR would have collapsed much earlier...

BTW, China may be communist but it is not socialist!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
youcan'tstopusnow
#40 Posted : Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:29:33 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
mukiha wrote:
2012 wrote:
Kibaki is an economist and I'll be shocked if he assents.

Yeah! And you forget that he was the one who perfected the art of price controls when he was Finance Minister in the 1970s. His budgets (Finance Bills) were virtually a list of prices of various commodities.

This lead Kenyans to believe that budgets are are the days when new prices are announced. Every time prices were changed outside the budget day, we called it a "mini-budget".

In a bid to reduce the practice of hoarding by traders in the run-up to budget day, Saitoti slowly moved the price announcements away from the budget day. People complained because he had many "mini-budgets"!


Kibaki only did this because he was a wimp (still is,by the way) and followed everything 'Nyayo' said. I don't believe it was his call.
Kibaki (like any person with a hint of basic economics) knows the adverse effects of price controls.
Now he's the one calling the shots. He'll do what he wants and no one will tell him anything (as the swearing in at night shows)
And his 'buddies' won't let him sign this thing
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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